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Some clarity on the Clarity

Honda fuel-cell vehicle: Not marketable, practical, or environmental

Posted by Joseph Romm (Guest Contributor) at 5:47 AM on 20 Jun 2008

Read more about: placemaking | green living | cars | energy | Big Auto

Technology Review asked me to comment about the hype over the new Honda fuel-cell car, which the company optimistically calls "the world's first hydrogen-powered fuel-cell vehicle intended for mass production." The key word here is "intended." Here it is:

-----

Would you buy a car that costs 10 times as much as a hybrid gasoline-electric, like the Prius? What if I told you it had half the range of the hybrid? What if I told you most cities didn't have a single hydrogen fueling station? Not interested yet? This should be the deal closer: what if I told you it wouldn't have lower greenhouse-gas emissions than the hybrid?

fcx-clarity.jpg

Other than the traditional media, which is as distracted by shiny new objects as my 16-month-old daughter, nobody should get terribly excited when a car company rolls out its wildly impractical next-generation hydrogen car. Too many miracles are required for it to be a marketplace winner.

Take Honda's new FCX Clarity (... please. Okay, I left that bit of snarkiness out of the TR piece). As The New York Times reported, "The cars cost several hundred thousand dollars each to produce," although Honda's president Takeo Fukui "said that should drop below $100,000 in less than a decade as production volumes increase."

But why would production volumes increase for a car that delivers no real value to the consumer and has no significant societal benefit to motivate government support? Answer: They wouldn't, so prices may never drop below $100,000.

And who, exactly, is going to buy a car that can't easily find fuel? On the other hand, who is going to build tens of thousands of fueling stations -- price tag $2 million apiece or more -- until the cars are wildly successful? That is the so-called chicken-and-egg problem, which is especially acute for hydrogen. After all, why should oil companies spend tens of billions of dollars building a hydrogen fueling infrastructure, which at best will take away business from their tremendously profitable gasoline sales, and at worst will be a complete business loss, assuming, as now seems likely, that hydrogen cars never catch on?

And yet the media can't get enough of these hi-tech Edsels. The New York Times, of all places, writes:

Fuel cells have an advantage over electric cars, whose batteries take hours to recharge and use electricity, which, in the case of the United States, China and many other countries, is often produced by coal-burning power plants.

Is the Times unaware that electricity is pretty much available everywhere, whereas hydrogen is essentially available nowhere? Is the Times unaware that the per-mile fuel cost of an electric car is probably one-quarter that of a hydrogen fuel-cell car? Is the Times unaware that electric-car manufacturers are working on "exchangable batteries," which would make a battery swap about as fast as it takes to refuel a car with hydrogen?

Most egregious: Where, exactly, does the Times think hydrogen comes from? Santa Claus? More than 95 percent of U.S. hydrogen is made from natural gas, so running a car on hydrogen doesn't reduce net carbon dioxide emissions compared with a hybrid like the Prius running on gasoline. Okay, you say, can't hydrogen be made from carbon-free sources of power, like wind energy or nuclear? Sure, but so can electricity for electric cars. And this gets to the heart of why hydrogen cars would be the last car you would ever want to buy: they are wildly inefficient compared with electric cars.

Electric cars -- and plug-in hybrid cars -- have an enormous advantage over hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles in utilizing low-carbon electricity. That is because of the inherent inefficiency of the entire hydrogen fueling process, from generating the hydrogen with that electricity to transporting this diffuse gas long distances, getting the hydrogen in the car, and then running it through a fuel cell -- all for the purpose of converting the hydrogen back into electricity to drive the same exact electric motor you'll find in an electric car.

The total power-plant-to-wheels efficiency with which a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle is likely to utilize low-carbon electricity is 20 to 25 percent -- and the process requires purchasing several expensive pieces of hardware, including the electrolyzer and delivery infrastructure. The total efficiency of simply charging an onboard battery with the original low-carbon electricity, and then discharging the battery to run the electric motor in an electric car or plug-in, however, is 75 to 80 percent. That is, an electric car will travel three to four times farther on a kilowatt-hour of renewable or nuclear power than a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle will.

No wonder The Wall Street Journal reported this in March:

Top executives from General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. Tuesday expressed doubts about the viability of hydrogen fuel cells for mass-market production in the near term and suggested their companies are now betting that electric cars will prove to be a better way to reduce fuel consumption and cut tailpipe emissions on a large scale.

So why do a few car companies persist in rolling out generation after generation of overhyped Hindenburgs? Maybe it's because they keep getting so much free positive publicity.

The Times story includes not a single critic of hydrogen cars and reads like a Honda press release. The Times opens the story by saying that the FCX "may have just moved the world one step closer to a future free of petroleum." Not quite.

The story does end with some illumination: "For now, the first batch of customers seem drawn by the car's novelty as much as anything else." The same might be said of the media.

If you build it, the media will come, but don't hold your breath waiting for mass-market hydrogen-car buyers. In two years, GM and Toyota have promised to deliver plug-in hybrids. That will be a real step closer to a future free of petroleum.

This post was created for ClimateProgress.org, a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.

Ground transport tech

The hydrogen car almost certainly has no future. Hopefully, people will opt for electric vehicles or plug-in hybrids, rather than leading a push towards synthetic liquid fuels made from coal.

a sibilant intake of breath
"Living With Ed"

The Green network TV show featured a visit to Jay Leno's garage.  Jay said he is going to install a reformer system that produces hydrogen from natural gas to power his fuel cell vehicles.

The fantastical hydrogen fuel cell economy is in the media hype consciousness, just "clean" coal to liquid fuel and fuel farming are.

It all needs debunking, good work Joe.

Jay also showed Ed a 1913 hybrid car.  And a biodiesel jet turbine car.  He dissed looking under the hood of an electric car as "like taking down a ken doll's pants, nothing there".

Meanwhile in the real world these new batteries make plugin hybrid conversion a viable 100+ mpg option.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/6/20/ ...

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

Battery not Fuel

I think people are deceptively attracted to Hydrogen because it's a "clean fuel."  The problem is its really more of a battery.  Hydrogen "fuel" cells just store energy made from another process (lots of electricity or heat) in the form of chemical bonds.  And like Joseph Romm points, all that just to break it back down to electricity.  

But the classification as an alternative fuel makes it deceptively attractive.  Once you realize its just a battery storing the same old electric power, the only differences are 1) way more cost, for 2) way lower efficiency, plus 3) massive investment in an entire new infrastructure just to make it relevant.

Good article Joseph.

As a former hydrogen fan ...

I have to say again what I said at greencarcongress.com/2008/06/geeco-developin.html:

Li-ion is more efficient ... but with that higher efficiency duly accounted for, 500 kg of lH2 tank, even though it includes only ~30 kg of hydrogen, still yields about as much driveshaft work as two tonnes of Li-ion battery. Or anyway, with the lH2 tanks BMW is using, that is true.

--- G.R.L. Cowan, H2 energy fan 'til ~1996
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html

The car is leased -- not sold -- then salvaged

Joseph Romm wrote: Would you buy a car that costs 10 times as much as a hybrid gasoline-electric, like the Prius?

The Honda FCX Clarity is not sold. It is leased for $7,200/year, or $21,600 for a three-year lease. When the lease is over, the car is taken back by the company which then has the opportunity to salvage the platinum that makes the car expensive.


Joseph Romm wrote: And who, exactly, is going to buy a car that can't easily find fuel?

California and Japan are building refueling networks.
hydrogencarsnow.com/japan-hydrogen-highway.htm

Some generation-IV nuclear-reactor designs are proposed that could potentially produce hydrogen (from water) cheaper than electricity.


Too bad

More than 95 percent of U.S. hydrogen is made from natural gas, so running a car on hydrogen doesn't reduce net carbon dioxide emissions compared with a hybrid like the Prius running on gasoline.

As much as I love kicking Hydrogen cars where it hurts, I hate to say that that statement might not be correct for this car.

The trick of course is that Toyota gets around this by giving the car the best possible electric batteries, electric motors, and electric super-capcitors one could ask for.

Perhaps the more take-home argument for me is that the only real way it got these advancements were from better technology that would benefit electric cars even more.

-David Ahlport

Or to reiterate

  1. Imagine the most expensive electric car you can think of.  Tricked out with the best electric motors, nanolithium batteries, and supercapacitors possible.

  2. Now shrink the battery range to about 40 miles

  3. Now latch on a glorified natural gas Generator that needs gold and plantinum to run.  And breaks down in 5 years.

  4. Plus a 10,000PSI compressed storage tank, made out of carbon fibre, with more insulation than Santa Claus could ask for.
__

Now you might ask yourself.

"If I already have step 1, why include step 2,3,&4."

I would certainly ask the same thing.

Especially considering if you have step 1, then you already have a battery setup capable of recharging to 80% in 1 minute flat.
http://greyfalcon.net/quickcharge3.png

Compared to 3-5 minutes to fill up with Hydrogen.

Takes a few hours to fill up at home, but then again, the same thing is true with hydrogen reformed from natural gas.

-David Ahlport

GreyFlcn

You would really buy a car with a 40-mile range? Most people wouldn't.

2008 Toyota Camry Solara SE
Range: 462.5 Miles.



Correction

Valence batteries are only available with a miniumum order of 500,000 dollars.  Does anyone know an electric car coop that could pony up the dough for this?

That would rock already existing electric cars and new conversions with batteries under half the weight of the usual lead acid.  Performance and range would be greatly enhanced.

Enthuisasts from around the globe could join the electric conversion coop online and eventually get these batteries.

Vinod, how about a donation to get this going?  make up for your biofuelishness in backing ethanol.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

Uhm NucB, isn't that obvious?

You would really buy a car with a 40-mile range? Most people wouldn't.    2008 Toyota Camry Solara SE    Range: 462.5 Miles.

Heh, well the recharge figure I gave is for 100 miles at highway speed recharged in 1 minute. (Given enough current)
http://greyfalcon.net/quickcharge3.png
http://greyfalcon.net/quickcharge
http://greyfalcon.net/quickcharge3

However even if a car, say, the Chevy Volt only has 40 miles electric range, thats what the gasoline generator is for. And the only reason it's 40 mile range, is cost.
http://greyfalcon.net/plugins
http://greyfalcon.net/volt
http://greyfalcon.net/plugins6
http://greyfalcon.net/plugins7

40-60 miles range just happens to line up with the vast majority of normal commute distances.  And hence the most electric miles driven per year, with the least battery cost.

I'm kind of surprised you didn't already know this.

Drop down the price of the batteries, and 600 mile electric range would be practical.

-David Ahlport

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