Google plugs in

Notes from a plug-in hybrid conference

Posted by Michael Moynihan (Guest Contributor) at 11:07 PM on 15 Jun 2008

Silicon Valley came to Washington this week to talk about plug-in hybrids at a great conference organized by Google.org with Brookings. The combination of tech visionaries, electric cars on display, Washington heavy hitters such as John Dingell, Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and even a couple of film stars, Peter Horton and Anne Sexton of Who Killed the Electric Car?, made for a great meeting.

Here are my notes from the standing room only event ...

Strong keynotes from Dan Reicher of Google, who laid out Google's road map for work on plug-in hybrids and renewable energy, Peter Darbee, the CEO of PG&E who gave an information packed speech on the role of the power industry as energy producer, Jim Woolsey, who pulled no punches on the Saudis and the Wahabi philosophy as it pertains to our need to achieve energy independence, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-S.C.), who pointed out that government should watch out for unintended consequences of its policy as in the impact on food prices due to support for ethanol, and Chairman John Dingell, who, noting that the auto industry is the only industry that now regulates low carbon, told his friends in other industries, "We're coming to get you next."

The conference was full of optimism, as it should have been, but PHEV pioneer Prof. Andy Frank reminded everyone that the oil industry is not going away any time soon and may have different ideas about the future of the electric car.

Shai Agassi gave his usual awesome presentation on Project Better Place, which is moving full speed ahead in Israel and Denmark with its zero-zero approach to no gas costs through a pure electric car and a free car with a contract. Other interesting speakers included Alan Madian, who laid out a road map for emissions reductions that was pessimistic, only because it assumes very slow turnover of cars.

Jack Hidary and Jim Woolsey asked why the U.S. can't stimulate the retirement of older, gas guzzling vehicles as other countries do, and Jack pointed out this would also help the beleaguered U.S. auto industry.

I had a chance to try out Tesla, Chairman Elon Musk's personal roadster. Tesla delivered its first production models last month. Controls are a bit close, though ergonomically sleek ... the body features a good bit of light-weight carbon fibre but still smokes the coolness test. Moving around the floor of the conference, the car was utterly quiet. The range of 240 miles is impressive -- enough to travel from New York to Washington one-way or from San Francisco to San Jose and back -- though I would like to see about a hundred more miles to facilitate vacation trips -- fill in the blanks on where you like to go.

Everyone seemed proud of the Detroit-engineered Chevy Volt, due to go into production in 2010. The concept model is sharp. If only they would put it into production it would be the sharpest car on the road. Using a serial hybrid system -- electric and then gas in series, it will make trips under 40 miles gas-free but allow longer ranges using gas. But to remind everyone of the past, Peter Horton and Chelsea Sexton, stars of Who Killed the Electric Car?, were on hand.

The bottom line is that electric cars are coming. The question is how many people will buy them and whether the infrastructure will be ready. In this regard, Shai Agassi and Project Better Place's concept of building out networks of plugs and battery charging stations in Israel and Denmark seems particularly promising. A few speakers pointed out that many people live in apartments and may have trouble charging electric cars if they park on the street.

Regarding the deeper question of the power that will ultimately run them, while electricity is currently about one-fifth the cost of gas, important questions remain about the power industry's ability to produce the necessary power, clean or not. If people want to charge up during the day, hundreds of new, probably coal-fired power plants may be needed. On the other hand, if they charge up at night, today's capacity may be sufficient. To prompt the latter, time-of-use pricing is a necessary requirement and it is a very open question

Whether today's balkanized power industry can make the changes necessary to supply sufficient clean power is an open question. On the other hand, if America wants to do something, it can.

Ultimately it will come down to how seriously we want to make this happen.

For story: Google plugs in
14 Comments | Post a Comment

michael: was anybody talking about...

a) swappable batteries?

b) standardized batteries? this one's really bugging me. why all these proprietary systems? this should be opened up. i want easy upgrades.

c) sub-$12,000 cars and sub-$20,000 minivans, with range, for transitional purposes, because people are broke and may stay broke for years?

d) anybody talk about the credit crunch and general financial ugliness, in relation to selling these "premium" cars?

e) transportation negawatts, by reducing VMT through urban planning (particularly services distribution)?

f) electric bicycles and scooters? or are we trying to save the car industry.

thx!

by hapa at 1:47 AM on 16 Jun 2008

Well

It may seem silly.

But if we want time-of-use to really kick in.

We need to make it so that even if they do plug in during the day. That the car knows NOT to charge until it's nighttime.

Or even better, if the car knew how to charge on a demand-response level.

Considering a lot of these cars will be released in PG&E and SCE territory, it'd be great if they could pioneer this concept, and try to make it a standard.

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 5:00 AM on 16 Jun 2008

It's The Water...

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080616/153 ...

Kiyoshi Hirasawa, president of Genepax Co Ltd, unveiled part of the reaction mechanism of the company's new fuel cell system called "Water Energy System" in an interview with Nikkei Electronics.
The system, which is capable of generating power with water and air, was first presented June 12, 2008. As reported in our previous article, the system produces hydrogen through a chemical reaction between water and a metal (or a metal compound) on the fuel electrode side

by jabailo at 7:21 AM on 16 Jun 2008

Battery monopoly

Any mention of the shelving of battery technology patents? Auto makers own the rights, but won't allow mass production or any sales to entities not under their corporate control.

This, and not scientific and technological advances, is the cause of the slow progress on electric transportation. All the discoveries necessary have been made.

How about smart grid technology, that times charging and charges for the kwhs used? Google ought to be aware of this.

Did anyone mention that cars are only around 10% of GHG emissions? And that emphasizing the cars themselves and ignoring conservation devices like geo heat exchange heating/cooling (36% of GHG),smart grid technology, wind, solar, and biogas from waste systems to power the cars, leaves most GHG sources untouched.

How about the fact that soaring oil and other fuel costs are robbing us of the capital necessary to switch over to renewable/conservation energy policy?

No? That's to be expected. Couldn't we at least expect nore from Google? Apparently not.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 7:29 AM on 16 Jun 2008

Bailo

Bailo,
The "Water car" works technically.
But it's extremely inefficient.

http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2008/06/how-to-run-car-on ...

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 8:00 AM on 16 Jun 2008

Yep Grey

Another metal powered car. Zinc/air batteries are much simpler and more efficient, and someone has actually come up with a system to recharge them onboard the car. The total efficiency of the onboard recharge system is only 40% though, complicated by pumping the electrolyte and cooling and so forth.

No fuel cell or spectacularly inefficient ICE burning hydrogen with the zinc/air battery.

Just the battery and the electric drive system. Now if an infrastructure of "gas" pumps with zinc pellets in electrolyte could be built? It might just work.

Plugin hybrids with lithium ion batteries recharge at home or work and use regular gas though. on averag they have the potential to reduce gas consumption by 90%. As batteries get better that figure will go towards 100% elimination of liquid fuel.

Metal powered cars? Forget about it.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 8:29 AM on 16 Jun 2008

Water, Water, Everywhere...

Another metal powered car.

The company also said that since the MEA doesn't require catalysts, the amount of rare metals such as platinum is almost the same as existing systems.

I believe they are referring to the materials needed in the hydrogen fuel cell part of the system, not the part that separates the H2 from the H20.

http://media.cleantech.com/3002/water-fueled-car-criticis ...

Here's a background article which also states that the car is being "verified" by other Japanese manufacturers:

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-6-20/72135.html

by jabailo at 1:08 PM on 22 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

They fooled the media too

And 80% believed Iraq was a good move at the time. No shame in being gullible.

The true believers in this majical (metal powered) water car won't bother to retract and neither will bush voters.

Or nuclear power, clean coal, and fuel farming supporters.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 1:17 PM on 22 Jun 2008

Enquiring Minds Want To Know!

No shame in being gullible.

No shame in being skeptical as well.

I am continuing to track this story with a very open, but skeptical, mind. So far, the criticisms of it here and elsewhere have been somewhat unknowing...as in here where I rebut the blogger (ouch!):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/18/water-fueled-car ...

by jabailo at 1:40 PM on 22 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

Simian shame cycle

Chimp in chief stars in... we won't get fooled again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 1:55 PM on 22 Jun 2008

Swapable batteries

Don't that either swappable or super fast charging batteries are needed - just a decent range. We dont worry about how fast our cell phones charge as long as the battery holds up through the day. We plug them in at night when we sleep, and they are charged the next morning. If they charge the first five minutes, or if it takes them until we get - we don't care.

Same thing with the electric car. We have to sleep sometime. We will plug in our car when we come home for the last time that day, and unplug it in the moring when we get up. Even if we are sleep deprived, time for showers and so on should give us seven or eight hours charging time. For most of us that should take care of most of our driving. No that still does not meet all passenger transport needs. I don't think anyone ever though any one techology could.

by Gar Lipow at 2:58 PM on 22 Jun 2008

Well yeah Gar

But then again besides

Swappable
Quickcharge
Long Range

There is also of course
4) Add a small/cheap generator for extended range

:)

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 3:11 PM on 22 Jun 2008

This Is The Dawning Of....

Electricity from water.

To power our homes...our cars.

Imagine. A 12 person 500Mw SuperCoupe, powering through expansionist suburban sprawl...but with H20 to H2 fuel that is totally renewable...totally clean.

Yes, some question that it can be done...while others wonder why it took so long.

"No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions"
--Rado/Ragni

by jabailo at 6:34 PM on 22 Jun 2008

150 lbs. of batteries

That's the current weight for a plugin hybrid to go 40 or 50 miles on plugin battery power. With the latest, best available batteries.

Most daily trips are under that range, or a recharge at work or school can get a round trip of 80 to 100 miles.

When the batteries run down on longer trips, you fire up the conventional front wheel drive gas engine. It's just that simple. Audi has one already. But any front wheel drive economy car could be converted, before or after manufacturing.

There is no excuse for government ignoring this trend and not ordering 100s of millions worth to get the mass production going. Give GM, Ford, and chrysler each a 100 million dollar.

Matching McCain's lame 300 million dollar prize for the best electric car battery contest. Go for it Barack, just say it. Maybe some big corporations will match those orders for their own vehicle fleets?

This would bring the cost down to consumers.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 9:02 PM on 23 Jun 2008

ADVERTISING POLICY

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