Notable quotable

Toyota and Honda could sure learn something from Chevy!

Posted by David Roberts at 1:49 PM on 14 Jun 2008

"I don't have to tell you how sexy the [Chevy] Volt is. The Japanese and Chinese couldn't possibly put out something that appealing to middle America."

-- Andy Karsner, Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy at the Department of Energy

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Skip to 4 minutes into the video

What he says from that point on is dead on. The government can't pick winners for us.

I believe that is Jay Inslee to his right, trying to stay awake. Jay is government. Jay picked Imperium Renewables as a winner for us. We pay a dollar a gallon for them to turn crops grown in Canada into biodiesel, which is mostly shipped to Europe. Energy security government style.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 7:10 PM on 14 Jun 2008

You're kidding,...

...right, Dave? I'll take Honda's upcoming CR-Z or Toyota's FT-HS (which likely will see production in some form, too) over the Volt, though it is a matter of taste. And the much-praised "sexy" styling of the Volt concept has been changed, because, when GM tested it for aerodynamics, they discovered they had a big problem. Said Vice Chairman Bob Lutz:

When we put the concept in the wind tunnel, it was a disaster. We could almost put it in the wind tunnel backward and get a better result.

The aerodynamics have been changed, though supposedly it's still recognizable.

Oh, and there's the slight problem of having no lithium-ion batteries available yet that are adequate to enable it to perform as promoted while keeping the cost affordable for the mainstream.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 9:26 PM on 14 Jun 2008

JFK,

Yes, that was sarcasm.

grist.org

by David Roberts at 9:35 PM on 14 Jun 2008

And yet another flaw

160 hp is it JFK? I think that's the Volt's hp.

They need to cut that down to economy car size. 80 hp and 60 hp models would be sexy. The newer, better VW bug, put out in the 70s was 60hp I believe?

I think people would find 60 hp eco-sexy. How about carbon fibering the weight of the Volt down to the weight of the original VW too (Lutz you moron).

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 10:35 PM on 14 Jun 2008

That's funny

...put it in the tunnel backwards and get better results. Hint: the Volt concept car had no engineering behind it. It was for show.

The car that ends up with the Volt name on it will bear little resemblance to the concept car.

If they stick with the series hybrid drive train, it will get great mileage while using the grid charge. Once that charge is gone it will get terrible mileage. The average mileage will depend on how long you drive it after using up the grid charge.

Will demand outstrip supply for the Volt for years on end? Only if it morphs into a reliable, affordable, four door, five passenger, mid size hatchback that averages better than 48 mpg.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 8:43 AM on 15 Jun 2008

David,

I didn't pick up the sarcasm, but humor is so tricky in plain text. My apologies, though I think I provided some interesting background info, all the same.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 10:39 AM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

While I'm all for...

...lower horsepower engines, amazingdrx (I was considering the purchase of a '94 70 horsepower Honda Civic CX hatchback last week because I wrecked my Honda Insight but it sold before I got to the dealer), but how many Americans are at the point of buying such a car for the MPG benefits? Probably not many (not yet), and I can understand why. Even with my Insight, which had a bit more effective horsepower with the engine and electric motor combined (73), I had a tough time getting up to highway speed on occasion. Who likes the sight of a semi roaring up at high speed in their rear-view mirror and no more power available?

I loved lots of things about my little Insight, but I gave up a backseat in addition to horsepower in order to average 60 MPG year-round. Not many people were willing to do that, the result being that Honda sold a total of ~18,000 Insights worldwide (most in the U.S.) over 7 model years before they discontinued the model.

Also, I was under the impression that carbon fiber was still too expensive to make its use in mainstream cars economically viable. GM has already acknowledged that they won't make their original announced price goal of around $30,000 for the Volt; it will apparently be closer to $40,000. To have a meaningful impact, such cars must be affordable for large numbers of people.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 2:23 PM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

Well, then, that would be...

Biod, you wrote:

Will demand outstrip supply for the Volt for years on end? Only if it morphs into a reliable, affordable, four door, five passenger, mid size hatchback that averages better than 48 mpg.

In other words, only if it turns into something much like the next-generation Toyota Prius, which apparently will go on sale next Spring and is projected to achieve real world fuel economy in the mid-50s. Honda's upcoming new hybrid model will likely meet most of your criteria, too, though it will probably be a compact rather than midsize hatchback. It is intended for families, though.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 2:40 PM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

Well, then, that would be...

Biod, you wrote:

Will demand outstrip supply for the Volt for years on end? Only if it morphs into a reliable, affordable, four door, five passenger, mid size hatchback that averages better than 48 mpg.

In other words, only if it turns into something much like the next-generation Toyota Prius, which apparently will go on sale next Spring and is projected to achieve real world fuel economy in the mid-50s. Honda's upcoming new hybrid model (scheduled to go on sale early next year) will likely meet most of your criteria, too, though it will probably be a compact rather than midsize hatchback. It is intended for families, though.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 2:42 PM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

max horsepower.

Unlike ICE engines, I don't think greater horsepower will have much impact on fuel economy. Clearly the engine, and electrical subsystems would be beefier, i.e. the cars weight would suffer a bit. But the main cost and challenge is affordable (in both cost weightand volume) energy storage. Provide enough battery capacity for even modest plugin range (say anything greater than 10miles), and battery power output is not a limiting factor.

And, as was said above, occasionally peak acceleration can save your butt.

I was so pissed when GMs chairman? (was it Lutz, or Wagoneer) foamed at the mouth about climate scientists being frauds, that I wouldn't buy the volt, even if it was technically much better than the competition.

by bigTom at 3:53 PM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

Getting used to the taste of his foot...

Hi, bigTom. I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but, according to this D Magazine blog, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz apparently said he thinks "global warming is a total crock of sh*t." The blogger also says he claimed that "[h]ybrid cars like those made by Toyota 'make no economic sense,' because their price will never come down," which will likely come as a huge surprise to Toyota and Honda, both of which (as I recall) have said the cost of their hybrid systems will drop by roughly half with the next generation version.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 9:18 PM on 15 Jun 2008
[ Parent ]

Hotrodders

"...occasionally peak acceleration can save your butt."

More likely to get teenage boys and the teenaged at heart get themselves and innocent people killed.

No one needs to burn rubber.

Hotrod collectors can have their classic gas guzzlers, but mainly powered by plugin battery electric. Then they can rev up the gas guzzler ocasionally for effect.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 9:28 PM on 15 Jun 2008

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