Toyota's foresight pays off, part one

Prius sales top one million

Posted by Joseph Romm (Guest Contributor) at 3:54 PM on 16 May 2008

Read more about: green living | cars | Prius

The Toyota Prius is "the world's first mass-produced petrol-electric hybrid car to hit 1 million in sales." More than half of those were sold in North America. Toyota's goal is to sell more than one million per year.

I own one and must say it is a terrific car. I get about 45 miles per gallon combined city and highway -- double the mpg of my old Saturn, which was not as big.

I think the comments from the Wired blog bear repeating, considering how GM (and others) mocked Toyota for pushing what they claimed was a money-losing vehicle:

With demand rising and supplies falling, Toyota has - surprise! - cut incentives and raised prices. The Prius goes for an average of $25,274, up $869 from a year ago, according to JD Power.

It's hard to believe it now, but the Prius was a hell of gamble when Toyota unveiled in in 1997, when gas was cheap, SUVs ruled the earth and global warming was only beginning to penetrate mainstream consciousness. Today the Prius is the gold standard for eco-friendly vehicles and Toyota has expanded its hybrid line to include the Camry and Highlander.

But the Prius is the cash cow, and Toyota will unveil the next-generation model at the Detroit auto show in January. Auto Observer says it will be bigger, cleaner and more fuel efficient. Toyota also is developing a plug-in version that could be in showrooms by 2010.

Those who follow the energy/climate issue and Toyota, however, are not surprised. Alone among major car companies, Toyota has taken seriously both peak oil and global warming. So Toyota has understood for a long time something that Detroit and conservative politicians don't -- the car of the future has high fuel efficiency and the ability to use an inexpensive low-carbon fuel. That makes the hybrid vehicle, with its ability to transition to the plug in, the most important vehicle platform of the century (see "Plug-in hybrids and electric cars -- a core climate solution, nationally and globally").

The other lesson for car companies is that you need to use most of the hybrid technology to save gasoline, not increased power. Honda failed to understand that with their Accord hybrid (see here and here). With 255 horsepower and city mileage of 25 mpg (!), the car sold 25,000 units since 2004, and a mere 6,100 of the 2007 mode. Honda will not be hybridizing the next generation in 2008.

Kudos to Toyota.

This post was created for ClimateProgress.org, a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.

For story: Toyota's foresight pays off, part one
14 Comments | Post a Comment

modding

the great thing to me about this car is all the mods people are creating.

i have hybrids-plus's battery and plug adapter in, plus rick eye of go100mpg (here in LA)'s mod of a switch which stops the prius from kicking the gas in until you get over 52 mph. with these two mods, my prius gets over 200 mpg. some of that is because the type of driving i do--on LA city streets--is perfectly suited to a car that is electric up to 52 mph, but even if that weren't the case anyone with these mods could get well over 100 mpg.

it's all available now, with today's tech. toyota's announcement that it would start making the prius a plug-in in 2010 is extremely disappointing--the battery they are proposing to use, simply put, sucks. they are trying to keep the price point down but that's a mistake in my view.

by robertogreen at 4:26 PM on 16 May 2008

Green Eyed Lady....

http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=911& ...

Just what the latest Brazil find (dubbed "Sugarloaf ") could mean to our oil-ravenous world isn't yet completely clear, but the Associated Press quoted Roger Read, an energy analyst at New York-based investment bank Natixis Bleichroeder Inc., as saying, "This would lay to rest some of the peak oil pronouncements that we were out of oil, that we weren't going to find any more, and that we have to change our way of life."

Texeme.Construct(function(x)=Participation(x))

by jabailo at 8:11 PM on 16 May 2008

Good news roberto!

Glad you could get 52 mph out of the Prius electric motor alone.

A bit bigger electric motor and a decent battery (40 to 60 mile electric range)would make the Prius plugin conversion a complete solution to GHG from cars and peak oil.

Hypercar parts for the Prius, carbon fiber body panels, doors, hood and so forth would really make it even better. But of course, being a conversion of an already expensive new car it isn't affordable.

Will a Barack administration give a green light to toyota plugins? I still think darth cheney is behind toyota's delay of plugin technology.

An ultralight, very low power, plugin hybrid, with a 40 hp electric motor and 12 hp backup generator would be the real hypercar to beat if it were mass produced. Chinese companies have to be thinking about this right about now.

What about Honda leapfrogging toyota with a design like this? Do it or go the way of GM, Honda.

BTW, I think this spells the death of the US owned auto industry. Too slow Lutz. You are a complete moron.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 11:50 PM on 16 May 2008

Still waiting for batteries.

I have a year old Prius. So far the cost of any of these mods has been prohibitive, for all but those who want to early adopt at any cost. I hear there will be a plugin kit from A123 (lithium ion battery), that will enable an approx 14mile plug in range. But at $10,000, it will require roughly $10/gallon before it makes economic sense. That is the real reason that we are still waiting for plugins, and electric vehicles, the battery technology is just not yet there in an affordable yet long lasting package. As the cost of batteries declines, and gas goes up I expect plugins will start appearing. Expect early plugins to have very limited pure electric range, as expensive battery capacity will make longer range just too expensive.

Incidentally, for those who have the current unmodified Prius. With a little care in your driving, you should be able to get 50-60mpg. The key is to use the electric mode to maintain speed, not for acceleration. The limited electric energy is very valuable in allowing you to maximize the time the gas motor is off. Also regenerative braking is not that efficient, so trying to minimize braking is nearly as important as it would be in a non hybrid vehicle.

by bigTom at 6:20 AM on 17 May 2008

All energy that goes into the Prius battery

came from burning the gas in the tank. To get into the battery it had to pass through a thermal bottleneck that lost roughly 60% of the generator's input energy. Maximizing the time you run on the battery will not increase "total" gas mileage for any given tank of gas, although trying to do so generally means low speeds and low accelerations, which will increase gas mileage, as with any other car.

It is physically impossible to increase gas mileage of a Prius (for any given tank of gas) by maximizing the time it runs on battery power alone (unless it is a plug-in drawing energy from the grid), because all energy came from burning the gas. The battery increases mileage by capturing a percent of waste heat normally lost to braking (created by burning gasoline) using 60% efficient electric motors acting as generators and returning it to the drive train via a 60% efficient electric motor.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 7:08 AM on 17 May 2008

surprise!

Hey! A comment from jabailo!

FYI, the discovery of a new oil field does not make oil an infinite resource, nor does it disprove the fact that we should move on from an oil-based economy. Quoting someone doesn't make it a fact.

by stinkycheese at 7:47 AM on 17 May 2008

Battery weight/wait

One gallon of fuel equivalent, 6 kwh, can be stored with 350 pounds of the new Oasis foamed lead/acid battery. That should give a Prius a 40 to 50 mile plugin range.

They are coming on the market soon, built for semi-tractors, so the "hotel" function of trucks can be powered without running the diesel engine, in line with new fuel economy restrictions in California. That's 5 batteries, I'm guessing they may cost 100 to 200 dollars a piece?

That weight is kind of high. It would probably take a hypercar version with carbon fiber replacement parts for enough of the metal parts on the car to save 300 pounds or more.

I saw the A123 conversion at the midwest Renewable Energy Fair last summer. The people driving it as a demostration car told me the cost was mainly in the computer chips. and they claimed the range was 40 miles on plugin.

52 mph with modification? Has someone come up with a software solution or simpler hardware modification to fool the existing Prius chips? It might reduce the price a lot.

Agreed tom, these prices are out of sight of most consumers. But let us look for a meeting point. Say 5 dollar gas meets a 5000 dollar conversion kit for a used economy car?

Battery, and electric motor to power the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car like a Honda Acccord. And enough hyper light replacement parts to lighten the car a few hundred pounds. That would seem reasonable and possible.

Then the thousands of dollars saved every year would pay off the conversion in a few years. And let us not forget, early adoption of a car that might last 8 years puts the savings out a few years, with 10 dollar gas, at a very profitable level.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 8:09 AM on 17 May 2008

Toyota is a rare bird

Today there are very few world leaders or corporate leaders who have either the balls or the wherewithal to think ahead and use good judgment.

I examine the nature of judgment and sapience at:
Question Everything

George

George Mobus, Associate Professor, Institute of Technology, University of Washington Tacoma, and Professional Student for Life

by gmobus at 3:09 PM on 17 May 2008

Capitalism Needs Overhaul

As an American, I grew up with the tactic of perceived (and planned) obsolescence firmly planted in my psyche. Thankfully, we all have free will. That said, I often think about the actions we Americans make to consume our way into being more sustainable; an oxyMORON if there ever was one.

I have a '98 Toyota Camry. I have never bought a new car, and never will. I have been toying around with buying a used diesel to convert to run on WVO/SVO, or a Hybrid, or, or, or...

Or just keeping my perfectly good Camry and not taxing our system to create brand new products for me to consume. I'd imagine it takes more energy overall to create a hybrid than the gas saved from running my present car vs. buying the new hybrid overall.

I am joyous that we are creating more ways to be self-reliant and sustainable, so when I need a new car because my old one breaks down, I'll be happier in purchasing a hybrid rather than a traditional model.

Ultimately, I'd like to just get my ass out of the 'burbs that are auto centric and live in a walkable/bikeable/mass transit friendly environment, ditch the car, and all that jazz.

In the meantime, I am trying to be conscious and abstain from getting the "new gear" while my old gear is perfectly useful.

by msDarby at 3:21 PM on 17 May 2008

Petrobras Hires 80% Of Deepwater Rigs

http://oilismastery.blogspot.com/2008/05/petrobras-hires- ...

The company's ``insatiable'' demand is forcing producers including Exxon Mobil Corp. and BP Plc to pay more as they compete for the remaining units, said Kjell Erik Eilertsen and Truls Olsen, analysts at Fearnley Fonds AS in Oslo. Explorers that don't have rigs under contract may delay projects or pay rents of more than $600,000 a day.
``The oil majors have their backs against the wall as Petrobras has aggressively locked up significant rig capacity,'' said Omar Nokta, head of maritime research at Dahlman Rose & Co. in New York.

Texeme.Construct(function(x)=Participation(x))

by jabailo at 3:57 PM on 17 May 2008

Battery Size

"It is physically impossible to increase gas mileage of a Prius (for any given tank of gas) by maximizing the time it runs on battery power alone (unless it is a plug-in drawing energy from the grid), because all energy came from burning the gas."

This is not correct for the current generation of hybrids. The limits of battery charge/discharge and size of battery result in cases where energy cannot be recovered and cases where battery energy cannot be used in the most effective way. The current hybrids have batteries sized to compromise between initial cost and gas savings. However, a bigger battery would allow greater gas savings.

by KenG at 7:14 PM on 17 May 2008

Honda

Honda makes a hybrid that is not nearly as popular. What gives, quality, advertisement?

They also make a NGC, a natural gas car and have a company that makes a home natural gas charge station. How is that working out? I believe it works out to about $1.00 a gallon when compared to gasoline.

I would really like to see the other Hybrids give toyota some competition to bring the price down on these units. Quality and efficiency will determine how well they do in the market. It is just hard to get reliable data. I do not trust corporate data on miles per gallon and quality.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

by Pompey Road at 8:20 AM on 18 May 2008

Interesting Pompey

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/refueling.aspx

Here's the page on the refill system. And high pressure filling stations in California.

These kind of filling stations at key truckstops on the interstate could really power most of the long haul trucks. Flex fuel retrofit to existing diesel trucks or replacement flex fuel engines would do it. Natural gas/diesel flex fuel trucks.

Natural gas can come from biogas digestors or conversion of coal to gas underground. And of course traditional gas wells.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 8:37 AM on 18 May 2008

Another

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/afvs/c ...

Good page. This is technology to subsidize. Methane from coal beds, it mentions this source. But not biogas. How much diesel fuel would powering trains this way save?

Plugin hybrid hypercars, like the Toyota experimental vehicle, could go hundreds of miles on a very small tank of natural gas/biogas for backup.

Biogas from waste eliminates huge amounts of GHG from the atmosphere (over 20 times the CO2 it emits). Each driving mile, on biogas, is cleaning the air. Pretty frightening, hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 8:46 AM on 18 May 2008

ADVERTISING POLICY

You are not logged in. Thus, you cannot post a comment. If you have an account, log in. If you don't have an account, well, by all means go make one! Meet you back here in five.