Now we're getting into the nuts and bolts climate policy, with the following folks:

• The Hon. Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown, Jr.
  Attorney General
  State of California
• John E. Bryson
  Chairman and CEO
  Edison International
• Alexander "Andy" Karsner
  Assistant Secretary, Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
  U.S. Department of Energy
• Jonathan Lash
  President
  World Resources Institute
• Dan Reicher
  Director, Climate Change and Energy Initiatives
  Google.org

No sense going over the details of this panel -- probably familiar to most Grist readers -- but there was one theme that came up again and again, worth calling out.

The consensus, across parties, across industries, was that climate legislation (cap and trade) is going to be difficult, there's going to be tons of resistance, and it's not going to do the job anyway.

Everyone agreed that we need old-fashioned mandates -- forcing energy efficiency into the market sector by sector.

In other words, everyone agreed that John McCain is wrong -- that you need much more than cap-and-trade, and indeed that the complimentary policies are just as important as the cap-and-trade itself.