Very well said

The green cartopia ain't likely to happen

Posted by JMG (Guest Contributor) at 10:36 AM on 06 Aug 2007

Read more about: cars | hybrids | placemaking | green living | electric vehicles

Kurt Cobb writes a smart and sensible review of Who Killed the Electric Car? Excerpt follows:

The documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? is an excellent murder mystery filled with dislikable corporate and government villains. It also features heroic engineers, salespeople and average citizens as well as a sprinkling of good-looking actors and actresses who play, well, themselves. As I watched the film recently for the first time, I found myself doing something that I don't normally do: cheering for Hollywood celebrities and their cars.

...

For those who must use private automobile transportation all or some of the time, owning an all-electric or hybrid vehicle may be a wise choice. But buyers of hybrids especially should know that half of all the energy a car will ever use has already been used by the time you buy it. The energy was used to mine and refine the metals, to extract and refine the petroleum used for the plastics and the rubber, to stamp out the myriad parts, to ship them to an assembly plant, to assemble the car, to ship it to a dealer and to house it at the dealership, all while housing, feeding and providing transportation for all the people who do these things.

...

So my advice is to go see Who Killed the Electric Car? if you haven't already. And if you want to, hiss at all the greedy executives and malign government regulators. In retrospect they look more pitiful, than sinister as we watch the Japanese automakers run away with the hybrid and soon-to-be plug-in hybrid auto market. Cheer the good celebrities and the common folk who valiantly try to do their part to bring a presumably better technology into American life.

But don't get carried away with the unspoken message that technology will save us. Technology may be one of the many solutions we need to move toward sustainability. But, I find it very doubtful that we will all be able to sit behind the wheel our electric cars and wait for a green techno-utopia to emerge.

For story: Very well said
12 Comments | Post a Comment

Take that, strawman!

I find it very doubtful that we will all be able to sit behind the wheel our electric cars and wait for a green techno-utopia to emerge.

Who's arguing that electric cars will bring about a green techno-utopia? I mean really arguing it, not implying it in that sense of "imply" that means "not explicitly disavowing."

grist.org

by David Roberts at 10:40 AM on 06 Aug 2007

original

The original at Kurt's blog is here.

I enjoy reading his essays, and agree with him about half the time ;-)

He's also one of the growing minority of energy/environment commentators who has read The Black Swan.

by odograph at 11:05 AM on 06 Aug 2007

embodied energy

But buyers of hybrids especially should know that half of all the energy a car will ever use has already been used by the time you buy it.

Embodied energy is a critically important issue, but I have a really, really hard time believing that it is equal to the gasoline that a car will chew through in its lifetime. I wonder if this figure is based on the widely-discredited study that "found" that the lifecycle energy impact of hybrids are no better than that of an SUV.

by GreenEngineer at 12:40 PM on 06 Aug 2007

I second that doubt. (nt)

--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Oxygen expands around boron fire, car goes --
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html

by GRLCowan at 1:49 PM on 06 Aug 2007

lifecycle

This pages seems reputable. It's a little bit good news and a little bit bad. The energy consumption for manufacture is low, but toxic releases are high.

by odograph at 2:07 PM on 06 Aug 2007

Who Killed the Electric Car is pure bunk

Rarely is a movie so filled with lies as this film,from the crap about what a wonder car the EV-1. Prime liar Ed Begley stands there making th epreposterous claim that 90% of the folks can be satisfied with a car like the EV-1. Oh, really? A car that costs $45,000 and can't get to the next country and back, much less to a vacation spot, has batteries that cost $25,000 and need replacing every 5 years, requires 8 hours to recharge and has a battery pack that weighs a whopping 1200 pounds is NOT a wonder car. It;s exactly what it proved to be - a complete flop. Same for the Rav4 electric and the Honda EV. All
three failed for the most obvious of reasons. You don't need to manufacture villains to understand why the electric car using NIMH batteries was a disaster. The EV-1 was no more advanced than the Detorit electric car build in 1907 in terms of
all-important driving range and tiem to recharge. In 90 years, the electric car hadn't improved one iota. Only those who know nothing of the history of the electric car, or the EV-1 in particular
(which couldn't legally be sold - another small
point that lying film seems to have strangely
forgotten to tell its audience). And by the way, that long list of eager customers is a total lie.
There was no sucj long list - the only list GM ever had was a list of customers who might be interested in learning about the EV-1.

by theBike45 at 3:33 PM on 06 Aug 2007

What was illegal about selling the EV1?

Nothing, I suspect, but maybe 'theBike45' will surprise me.

--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Oxygen expands around boron fire, car goes --
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html

by GRLCowan at 3:57 PM on 06 Aug 2007

A number of RAV4 EVs were in fact sold,

I now recall. Maybe it was only domestic EVs that could not legally be sold. Could that be it, bike? (Consider growing a real name.)

by GRLCowan at 4:14 PM on 06 Aug 2007

Embodied energy

The pie chart shows energy costs for a "typical" car. A hybrid, with maybe half the typical fuel use in its lifetime and probably rather more than the typical energy cost in manufacturing & development (nonstandard technology, dual drive train) would seem likely to hit the 50/50 mark pretty close.

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

by spaceshaper at 6:47 PM on 06 Aug 2007
[ Parent ]

data?

That seems surprising to me on a couple fronts, space.

First, the Prius costs less than the average car sold in the US. I'd think that manufacturing costs would be represented pretty well in cost.

Second, the Prius weighs less than the average car sold in the US. It is hardly an exotic, and whatever batter costs there are are balanced by not making another 1000-3000 pounds of car (or SUV).

So do we have data? Or just supposition?

by odograph at 7:07 AM on 07 Aug 2007

Only a third of the article talked about the film

He didn't appear to take it all that seriously. I sure didn't.

I found myself doing something that I don't normally do: cheering for Hollywood celebrities and their cars
The film is an excellent piece of entertainment and journalism as far as it goes.
So my advice is to go see "Who Killed the Electric Car?" if you haven't already. And if you want to, hiss at all the greedy executives and malign government regulators.

He also makes a rather ironic statement at the end when he says:

In retrospect they [the makers of the EV1] look more pitiful, than sinister as we watch the Japanese automakers run away with the hybrid and soon-to-be plug-in hybrid auto market.

Toyota (and Honda) also tested the electric car market. By the time RAV4EV production ended, the Prius had already sold a hundred times more cars (160,000 verses 1600). There simply were not, and still are not, enough people willing to pay such a high price for a car with a fifty-mile leash (50 out, 50 back). No Company is going to produce a product at a loss for very long. End of story.

Conspiracy theories are great but battery technology simply was not capable of providing what the vast majority of consumers would find acceptable, and still isn't to this day, and that is why we see hybrids instead, and hopefully plug-in hybrids next. Instead of going down in price, NiMH batteries have tripled in cost.

Our personal transportation of the future will look quite different from today, as it does today from 150 years ago. What it will look like nobody knows. My guess will be lightweight, highly recyclable, mostly electric vehicles that weigh less than half of what we drive today combined with vastly superior mass transit for longer trips at high speeds.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 9:12 AM on 07 Aug 2007

Odo

to back up what you said, the Dust to Dust energy study (that was probably a load of crap designed to bash hybrids) also found that the Prius was better than the average car in total life time energy consumed.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 9:15 AM on 07 Aug 2007

ADVERTISING POLICY

You are not logged in. Thus, you cannot post a comment. If you have an account, log in. If you don't have an account, well, by all means go make one! Meet you back here in five.