The loan arranger

Consumers are stingy about buying new energy-efficient appliances

Posted by Clark Williams-Derry (Guest Contributor) at 4:01 PM on 12 Jul 2007

Read more about: energy | energy efficiency | energy at home

We've been meaning to replace our furnace -- an old oil heater that was converted to gas back in the '70s -- for years. It's big, it's ugly, and worst of all, it's inefficient. So we pay much more for heat than we'd like, even in Seattle's relatively mild winters.

gas furnace But new furnaces don't come cheap. In fact, some back-of-the envelope calculations a few years back convinced me that it could take nearly a decade before the savings on our gas bills paid for the up-front costs of a new furnace.

In theory, of course, that's still a pretty good investment. After 10 years, we'd stop paying for the furnace, and it would start paying us.

But in practice, we never seemed to be able to save up the cash. Maybe it's my upbringing (my dad was hilariously stingy), but I hated the thought of going into debt, and paying interest and financing costs, just to buy an appliance.

On reflection, though, the fact that we waited to buy a high-efficiency furnace proves one thing: I'm a dolt. You see, if I had financed the furnace -- i.e., bought it on credit, or taken out a homeowners loan to pay for it -- the amount that we saved on utility bills each year would have just about equaled our annual payments. Which means that I could have had a nifty, high-efficiency furnace years ago, without paying a bit more for heat (utilities + financing costs) than I did with our old clunker. Less climate-warming emissions, no extra costs.

I think there's a general principle in play here. Consumers (like, er, me) are generally pretty foolish about energy-efficiency investments. We pinch pennies on the purchase price, even if it means that we overspend on energy over the long haul. Most businesses -- even energy-intensive industries -- do the same thing.

But if there were an easy way to finance energy efficiency investments -- say, a loan fund that would let homeowners and businesses use energy savings as collateral -- then virtually everyone would win. Consumers would spend less on energy; manufacturers would see their sales shift away from cheaper models to more expensive ones; and the loan fund itself could turn a steady profit. Oh, and we also might not heat up the planet so fast ...

For story: The loan arranger
14 Comments | Post a Comment

Let the 3% refinance it

The top three percent get all the benefits of the planet...let them buy everyone a new furnace.

Texeme.Construct(function(x)=Participation(x))

by jabailo at 4:21 PM on 12 Jul 2007

Welcome to the Pay As You Save (r) Idea

See www.paysamerica.org, and spread the word!

The 5% Project

by JMG at 4:41 PM on 12 Jul 2007

Rebates by State or Utility?

Hey, all;

Hey, Clark: If practical and your state or utility is progressive enough, you could find rebates that are available. Granted this may be a long shot, but you could try it.

Another thing you should look into is a ground- or earth-coupled heat pump (erroneously called 'geothermal', which they ain't), which have some issues specific to them, but have significant benefits. They are maybe 50% more expensive up front, but (and this will appeal to your stingy side) they are much more efficient and energy-stingy. Some problems concern space required for installation, which a good installer can guide you through.

Financing and finding incentives are some of the big problems individuals find when trying to do the right thing, environmentally-speaking. Shop around for a bank or other lending institution and you might find one who wants your business.

David
Sustainability For Life

Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!

by SustainableGreen at 5:11 PM on 12 Jul 2007

Actually

Because fuel prices are constantly rising the payback period on anything that burns fossil fuel becomes longer and longer. Never paying itself off with savings.

The payback period on heating systems powered by ground heat and solar, on the other hand, grow shorter as fuel prices rise.

So finance a geothermal/solar heat pump system instead.

I know, you will say solar does not work in the NW and you can't get enough geo heat because you live on a city lot.

But consider this. A layer of extra insulation on the outside of your home, and in the attic, a one inch foam layer for instance, with a small plastic heat tube running every two feet and a foil layer can allow 55 degree ground heat to create a heat envelope around your home in winter.

It takes a only a low power circulating pump to transport a fluid in the tubing that is heated by the other loop of the tubing trenched into your yard.

Your home sees 55 degree temps at the former outer heat zone layer, and at that temperature waste heat from appliances will keep you above 65 degrees inside.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 6:32 AM on 13 Jul 2007

Thermal envelope, sustainability, etc.

Hey, all:

Hey, Clark: You already have some great substantive suggestions. Retrofitting/adding insulation, window condition, weatherstripping, other air leaks, all help reduce energy costs. Once you do that, if you find that in your area a ground-coupled heat pump will not meet all your needs, especially for heating, an added low-capacity heat source can be used. You can even use solar water heat as that source. And Amazing is correct, all the physical "fuel" costs will always go up--no exceptions, so compared to your inefficient neighbors, you will be doing well.

The goal is sustainability, so any incremental improvements are a good idea.

David
Sustainability For Life

Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!

by SustainableGreen at 7:14 AM on 13 Jul 2007

The Trouble with Old Houses

[earth-coupled heat pumps] are maybe 50% more expensive up front

Do you know if this is for new installations or existing installations? I'd like to get an earth-coupled heat pump, but I live in the city and I don't have a huge yard, and if they're going to have to tear up the whole yard to put it in it won't be worth my trouble. Not only would I have to pay for the system, but I'd also have to re-landscape my yard and re-build my deck when they were done. And in the meantime, where would my dog go to the bathroom?

Anything that lowers my heating and cooling bills (which are already half the local average) is a good thing. I've only got single-pane windows and no insulation between my double-brick walls. But it won't be worth it if I not only have to pay for the system and installation, but also to have an entirely new backyard put in.

by Icelander at 8:22 AM on 13 Jul 2007

On Stingy Parents

My parents were baby boomers, whose parents came of age during the Great Depression. They saw the peril that came from being in debt and passed this fear onto their parents. So we've got a lot of folks who will avoid debt whenever possible simply because of a knee-jerk reaction ingrained in them by their parents, who got it from their parents, who saw first hand what happened when you couldn't pay your debts.

by Icelander at 8:30 AM on 13 Jul 2007

Heat pump

I think it will work on a city lot anyway. But without a compressor type heat pump.

Just a circulating pump that supplies that heat envelope with 50 to 55 degree fluid.

On a city lot one can drill the heat exchange pipes down into the ground and in a few trenches. Trenches are cheaper though. But they mess up more yeard making more landscaping necessary.

Side drilling? I guess it costs more, but who knows? Technically I think it would work well, especially if you do your own landscape repair after the digging. That would help manage the costs. I would even rent a trencher and do the whole thing myself, but that would be rare.

First the tubing would mount on the old outside surface, peel the old siding maybe? Then the foil layer, then one inch of foam. Then the old siding or new.

In the attic tubing could be mounted across rafters, then foil, then a layer of 3 inch fiberglass.

The pump would circulate when ever outside temps got below 50 to 55 depending on local ground temps. In summer it could be set to come on at outside temps above 80 degrees for cooling.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 9:17 AM on 13 Jul 2007

2 inch

A much cheaper to operate 2 inch drill would be suitable for installing this tubing in a yard, either slantwise or down. The tubing would be folded in a u shape with a u shaped coupling installed on the end that goes gown the drill hole.

The fluid travels down and back up the hole in the heat tubing. Slant or otherwise, and then the series of holes are connected with the plastic heat pipe in trenches.

Another factor would be that if any obstacle is encountered in this drilling, unlike water well drilling, the hole could simply be run sideways. When a water well drill hits rock they have to go through it down to water. Anywhere 6 feet underground is good enough to collect this heat.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 9:25 AM on 13 Jul 2007

On Stingy and Earth-couple heat pumps

Hey, all:

Hey, Icelander: First, I got no problem with stingy. Actually I think it is a virtue. We need more of it. Our consumerism-driven world needs a break. And you are right about the history: my own Mother (born 1907) used to make a list of topics to cover before she would make a long-distance phone call.

Regarding heat pumps, if you have ~10 ft width on your sideyard, enough for a truck-mounted drill rig to back into, you may be able to do one of the ground loop types of installation for an Earth-coupled heat pump. There are 3 general types: horizontal (in a trench), vertical (in a hole), and in a pond. In a city lot, vertical is the way. It ain't easy, though: your concerns are valid. The cost may not vary that much as long as the installation is not too involved. Substrate is important: rocky is more expensive.

Heating can be greatly improved in sustainability by using solar collectors to heat a liquid piped through loops in the floors, powered by PV. They call it 'radiant', but it is not: it is convective and conductive. It can be retrofit as long as you don't value the existing intact flooring. Less than an inch of light-weight concrete is poured to cover the loops.

There is a lot online to help with background and basics, so you can make better-informed choices. I hope this helps.

David
Sustainability For Life

Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!

by SustainableGreen at 9:35 AM on 13 Jul 2007

Look

To my blog in the near future for video on the whole heat envelope process applied to a new home with heat tubing installed in internally foam insulated concrete walls. In northern Wisconsin, a great place to test heating systems, brrrr!

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 9:36 AM on 13 Jul 2007

No side yard

I'm actually in a row home, and there's absolutely no way to get a truck into my backyard without taking out at least three of the neighbors' fences.

It would be really great if they could find a way of doing it from inside my basement.

by Icelander at 10:22 AM on 13 Jul 2007

Oooh row houses tough

Hey, all:

Hey, Icelander: Hey, you live above a seismic zone! Just pipe it in! Sheeesh!! (Oh, the name reference is from something else?...never mind.)

The lack of yard access is tough, but I suppose you use the basement, if someone has a portable drill apparatus, that will operate there, or a directional system into it through a basement window. The depth and diameter needed is a problem. Amazing, can a 2' diameter work? I have read that the lines need to be separated by 6" to prevent energy transfer between lines, rather than between lines and substrate. The goal is to have a heat sink/reservoir in the soil.

There is still an option to use the front yard, if practical, since there is nothing above ground when finished--it'll just look like Hell has arrived for a week or so. And, yer pooch can still poop in the back.

Or, last resort, pay for new fences for your neighbors. Who knows, over time you might actually SAVE money on their fences! One clear rule is that unsustainable energy sources (Carbon, nukes, agro-fuels, hydroelectric, etc.) will always go up--period. So there are tradeoffs and headscratching to do, but the goal is to be more efficient, cheaper, and sustainable.

David
Sustainability For Life

Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!

by SustainableGreen at 12:13 PM on 13 Jul 2007

Yep ice

Lots of drill holes from your basement might just work, never thought of that. no landscaping costs either. Just conveyor belt the dirt out a basement window.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 3:59 AM on 14 Jul 2007

ADVERTISING POLICY

You are not logged in. Thus, you cannot post a comment. If you have an account, log in. If you don't have an account, well, by all means go make one! Meet you back here in five.