Southern vacation

A few random observations before getting back to work

Posted by David Roberts at 11:51 AM on 10 Jul 2007

Well, here I am, back from a nine-day vacation in the South, sunburned, mosquito-bitten, jet lagged, and generally dazed. Rather than wading through the 300 or so emails demanding my attention, how about a few vacation observations?

I split my time between big-city Atlanta and the sort of not-quite-rural, not-quite-city, not-quite-suburb nether regions that, it seems to me, don't get enough attention in the kind of lay sociological analysis we enviros are prone to.

Anyway, everywhere I went looked almost exactly the same: big highways, endless, indistinguishable strip malls, and isolated residential areas separated from any retail or services by at least a few minutes of driving. The uniformity was amazing -- the outskirts of Atlanta look more or less like little Crossville, Tenn., there's just more of it around Atlanta. Outside the central Atlanta downtown area, I don't think I saw a single place that didn't look substantially like all the other places.

These (to me, anyway) mind-and-soul-numbingly uniform landscapes are populated by, um ... not to put too fine a point on it ... fat people. The rate of obesity is just striking. And it doesn't seem genetic, either, since there are plenty of slim young people in evidence. They get fatter as they get older -- I even see it at work in my extended family.

It's not a big mystery why, either. It's difficult to imagine a less healthy lifestyle that driving everywhere, staying inside all the time to escape the heat, and eating a constant diet of processed, greasy food. Hell, I probably gained a few pounds in the week I was there. Any vegetarian below the Mason-Dixon line has my enormous respect, because damn, it's tough to find a vegetable down there, much less a fresh vegetable.

The lifestyle isn't just making people fatter -- it's also making them more sour, less social. People are so used to their large, isolated, air-conditioned, TV-infused houses that they've forgotten how to behave in public (it doesn't help that literally every public space now has TVs in it, everywhere you look). I couldn't believe how flat-out rude people were in public spaces, just completely selfish and unaware of other people. It's true of the adults and doubly true of their children. We went to a big indoor play area called Monkey Joe's a few times -- it's got all those inflatable bouncy jungle gyms -- and I found myself scolding children who were not my own ... frequently. Most of them just looked at me blankly. They'd never heard that they ought to be aware of other people, or more to the point, they'd never heard the word no.

And while I'm at it, WTF with parents ignoring their kids? Every public place I went to -- restaurants, pools, whatever -- I had kids coming up to me trying to show me tricks or toys or something, just desperate for attention. Where are their parents? Oh, right, over in the corner talking on their $%#! cell phones. God I hate cell phones.

Anyway, last night I got home late to a dinner of quinoa salad with fresh vegetables from a local farmers market, along with rolls from a local organic bakery, followed by fresh strawberries and cherries from the aforementioned market. This is in addition to the crisp, warm, sunny weather, notably lacking in the suicide-inducing humidity I'd been swimming through all week. I suppose this whole post sounds like snobbish superiority, but what can I say? I'm glad I live in Seattle.

One additional note of interest: We rented a Prius for the first few days of our trip -- the first time I'd driven one. My older son was very impressed with the color (red) and shape (race car). I was taken with the geeky fun of pressing buttons and the instant obsession with gas mileage from the dash display. But -- not to be all American about it -- the thing lacks pep. My parents' new minivan has much better acceleration, both from a standing start and on the highway. I could live with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if lots of other folks couldn't.

OK, on to, you know, enviro stuff. What did I miss while I was gone? I understand there were some concerts or something?

For story: Southern vacation
25 Comments | Post a Comment

Now you know

Why Kunstler called his book "The Geography of Nowhere."

The 5% Project

by JMG at 12:33 PM on 10 Jul 2007

in defense

In defense of at least some of your attacks on my hometown (at least where I grew up, I have moved away since).

Can't get vegetables in the South? Jesus man, you seriously cannot have been looking hard. Not only is almost everyone with a backyard growing their own vegetables, but there are plenty of farmer's markets around. You were in Atlanta for Pete's sake, you'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to not be able to eat vegetarian there! Aside from the many dedicated veggie restaurants, almost every restaurant serves vegetarian options.

Hmm, you call a bunch of little kids running around wildly in an indoor playplace rude? Do you seriously expect kids to slow down and watch out for everything? They're kids!

Everywhere I've been people are bad parents - letting them be raised by gameboys and tv. That's not just a Southern thing. But seriously, to be annoyed by a kid who wants to be friendly and talk to you is pretty lame man. Again, they're kids!

by naturescene at 2:09 PM on 10 Jul 2007

the iphone came out

The iphone came out - to see the one that was presented to Stephen Colbert, see The Post-Normal Times for an exclusive - taken in Charleston at the River Dogs baseball game after he pitched a pint of Americone Dream...

by RoninGeographer at 2:29 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Dingell & Carbon Tax

Welcome back. You missed Dingell saying his support of a carbon tax is completely disingenuous. Check out these posts:

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/dingell_playing_troublem ...

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/detroit_congres_1 ...

http://www.blueclimate.com/blueclimate/2007/07/john-dinge ...

http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchives/2007/07/08/counting ...

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/08/dingell-will-prop ...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/7/225335/8594

http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/2007/07/playing-to-lo ...

http://www.tothepeople.com/2007/07/dingells-first-good-pr ...

http://proctoringcongress.blogspot.com/2007/07/john-dinge ...

Bill Scher blogs for Common Sense at commonsense.ourfuture.org

by Bill Scher at 2:33 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Kunstler thinks that the South...

...will decline again when peak oil hits, everyone will freak out because they'll be stuck in little towns without air-conditioning again, that of all the regions of the country, the South is the most car-dependent...is that true?

by Jon Rynn at 3:06 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Naturescene,

I was not "looking hard," no. I was hanging out with extremely square, mainstream people who don't look hard for vegetables, don't grow them in their back yard, and couldn't name a vegetarian restaurant. I'm sure a delightfully sustainable and healthy lifestyle is available in Atlanta for the community of people that chooses to seek it out, but most people, almost by definition, do not seek out a lifestyle that is an alternative to the mainstream. My impression, in fact, is that most of the traditionalists in the South feel the mainstream crumbling, and are quite prone to a) blaming liberals and foreigners for it, and b) clinging to what markers of the mainstream are left, and that means suburban life among strip malls. Anyway, I was mostly talking about the increasingly interchangeable small towns down there.

Oh, also, yes, room fulls of kids are always somewhat heedless, but there's a near sociopathic quality these days that strikes me as different, and no, I wasn't annoyed by the kids approaching me and saying "hey, watch this," while they show off their special spider-man swim goggles. I love that stuff -- I was the sole adult playing with kids in most of those contexts. It just made me sad. They watch TV all day and spend very little time learning basic socialization from adults.

grist.org

by David Roberts at 3:16 PM on 10 Jul 2007

jeremiad

It is sadly not surprising that DR should return from his swing through the Southeast in an OT-Prophetic mood.

Nor is there much surprise in learning that he scolds other people's children.

Recall the old Irish story:

A woman is on a bus, breast-feeding her child. A man on the bus has been observing her, obviously displeased. At last he confronts her, and says:

- Madam, do you not think that that child is a wee bit too old to be still suckin' at the breast?

She turns and says,

- Well, you can just kiss my arse!

And the child looks up and says,

- Yeah! And you can kiss mine too!

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 3:18 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Your observations were my observations as well

while on vacation. Glad you voiced them instead of me. Everybody is fat, and a lot of the kids are also. There is also a lot of shitty parenting going on out there. It's too easy to give them a game boy and parents are too distracted paying for their status symbols to siphon off time and energy for their kids.

However, the Prius has more than adequate acceleration. You are just accustomed to having more. I just took our Prius over a mountain pass with a giant box on top of a roof rack. It performed far better than other cars I have taken over the pass, Civic, Tercel, Pinto. Of course my Cherokee does not even notice a mountain pass but you can't have your cake and eat it to.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 3:26 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Pep?

If you want real energy-efficiency, Dave, you're going to have to give up the automotive "pep" you've grown accustomed to in the era of cheap fuel. Accelerating rapidly isn't energy-efficient. Gas-electric hybrid cars and all-electric vehicles can be made with lots of "pep," but they can't be made peppy without squandering energy in the process.

"You can never get enough of what you do not really want." - Huston Smith

by John Fish Kurmann at 3:27 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Ahh, good one, Canis

I scolded a kid or two myself. I told one kid to stop doing what he was doing and he said, "Why?" I said, "Do it again and you'll find out." Probably the closest he's ever come to being disciplined. What I was going to do I have no idea, luckily he chose not to call my bluff.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 3:32 PM on 10 Jul 2007

want pep in an electric car?

One word: tesla. Sure, its >= $98k for the car, but you can beat the pants off your parents minivan you mentioned and with zero emissions... and it reeallly looks like a race car! ;)
Check it: http://www.teslamotors.com .

by ser0t0n at 8:49 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Scolding

One child was repeatedly splashing water in my 3yo's face. My 3yo is not exactly the assertive type, especially in the face of a truculent 6yo, so he was just cringing. I said -- kindly I might add -- "hey, kiddo, can you stop splashing him?" He ignored me. I repeated it. He said, "I'm not kiddo!" and proceeded to redouble his efforts. So I positioned myself between him and my kid, bent down to look him in the eye, and said, "stop splashing him." He squealed, "I don't care!" and scurried off.

And that was pretty typical. When I was growing up, we were terrified of adults, and on some level when we screwed around we knew we were getting away with something, hoping they wouldn't notice. But this kid -- you could just see it in his eyes -- has grown up with no restraints, explicit or implied, on his little id. His world consists of Things He Wants and Things In the Way. There is no such thing as social disincentives, much less internal disincentives.

I'm far, far from one of those macho dimwits seeking a return to the halcyon days of tough discipline. The kid doesn't need spankings, he just needs attention. He needs to be involved in the adult world, to see how it operates, to become familiar with its unspoken rules, to see what's too-far and what isn't. The way that's supposed to happen in early life is through interaction with one's parents and, if tangentially, their social circle. Instead, I'll bet dimes to dollars he spends 95% of his time either with peers or sitting in front of some electronic device.

Thanks for the child-rearing observations, though, Canis. Your wisdom knows no boundaries.

grist.org

by David Roberts at 9:07 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Re: acceleration

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know I and everyone else should be willing to give up zippy acceleration for less tangible benefits. And I am. But lots of other people, not so much.

Like, for instance, the guy in the semi-gated suburban community I was staying in who strolled past with golf clubs, squinted my way, and said, "That a Prius? You get, what, 45 mph in that?" That guy's kid might one day sacrifice oomph for fuel efficiency, but he never will.

grist.org

by David Roberts at 9:09 PM on 10 Jul 2007

oh, well that's different

Aw shucks, DR, I wish I had had a Papa like you.

The situation is totally different, seeing as how you were defending your own against a bully.

To say nothing of the reckless and illicit waste of freshwater reserves.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 9:28 PM on 10 Jul 2007

Toyota will eventually fix that

"Yeah, yeah, I know. I know I and everyone else should be willing to give up zippy acceleration for less tangible benefits. And I am. But lots of other people, not so much."

A plug-in will have a much bigger battery and a bigger electric motor. A dial on the dash board could then allow a driver to trade acceleration for mileage. I test drove an electric car a few years ago that already had that feature (technicians could program it in). The thing would lay rubber with the acceleration function dialed all the way up but the batteries took a serious hit.

Canis,

"Nor is there much surprise in learning that he scolds other people's children."

Your unwarranted sniping at Dave is wearing thin, really thin. Consider knocking it off. Would you and like a taste of your own medicine? I've got some right here.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 10:30 PM on 10 Jul 2007

"medicine"?

BioD, be of good cheer. DR is a tough bird, who can easily take care of himself. From countless things I have written, it should be amply clear that I have great respect for him, and consider Gristmill fortunate to have him as a principal staff writer.

Anyway, much of what I address to him personally is just teasing. Could anyone possibly believe that he loses credibility in the eyes of any reader, just because I give him a friendly poke now and again?

In this case, regarding his "scolding other people's children," please note, first, that it was he who brought up the subject; secondly, that my first comment was, as I said, just teasing; and thirdly, that once he explained the situation, quite different from what he had originally implied, I immediately and gladly acknowledged that he had absolute right on his side, to do and say what he did.

DR is a very good writer and journalist, and no doubt a very good father too; and it is unbelievable that anything I might write, however malignantly misinterpreted to his disadvantage, could possibly bother either him or his readers.

As for "unwarranted sniping wearing thin": I have no idea what you mean. Sure, I have expressed displeasure in the past -- a sense of "this is wearing really thin," in fact, to use your words -- at what I perceive to be DR's sometimes heavy-handed hyper-Virgo way-low-pH cynicism -- and his cranky commentary on his recent trip to the Southeast is quite in character, no? But it is certainly not true that night and day, day after day, all I do is take mean-spirited potshots at him. Why ever do you think that?

What matters, or what should matter to a writer, is that I continue to read what he writes, and do so with both attention and enjoyment. And I expect there are many others who likewise read his words, totally discounting all my "unwarranted sniping." And can there be any higher praise for a writer, than to be told that what he writes is being read by someone who does so with pleasure, and who takes him seriously?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 9:24 AM on 11 Jul 2007

Having shared just one day

I agree and disagree slightly with you Dave. I do agree that the South has homogenized in the developed areas. Everywhere I go in a 100 mile radius of Atlanta looks exactly the same. A few towns try to build up their main streets, but the malls and big box stores killed the small town south that was my childhood.

And to follow that vein, air conditioning made the south an attractive place to live (I can remember unbearable heat as a child), but it destroyed our sense of neighborhood and interdependence. Personally I can't live with out A/C, but I walk somewhere every day in my neighborhood or around my work in midtown Atlanta.

Then on the one day we were together, you did have a chance to eat fresh ladypeas, bought at a farmer's market and pressured cooked by your dear aunt. And there was more fresh fruit and tomatoes brought from a roadside stand by another dear aunt. The fruits and vegetables took up more table space than the fried chicken and dessert. An anomoly I admit, but it did happen.

You are right about the obesity, and I can vouch that a few of our older relatives are pleasantly plump, but you have an incredibly skinny grandma of 87 who can still kick butt. You should also mention some slim and attractive aunts, uncles and your parents.

I did share your irritation that most of the adults did a lot of sitting around (although they were talking to each other) instead of interacting with that bunch of glorious kids. You are so right that adults just ignore kids nowadays and then get irritated when the kids are so needful of attention. The brave adults who played with those kids in the pool had the best time.

As for vegetarians, I have several friends who are vegetarians and I know several people, myself included, who eat meat rarely. There are awesome vegetarian restaurants, farmer's markets, and local food co-ops. You were hanging with the wrong crowd. Next time drive down an old state highway to south Georgia and see what great vegetables are raised in this state.

You know I left the south, but I came back after 20 years or so. I still agree with most of your post, but I've been back long enough that I can see the good in the region and the good in most people.

By the way, people all over are getting fat and children are getting out of control!

by Baby Boomer at 10:12 AM on 11 Jul 2007

Addendum!

I do have some very slim, healthy, intellectually agile aunts who seemingly haven't aged a day in the last 20 years. What is the secret to their youthful vitality, everyone wonders? They won't tell.

I will happily (unhappily?) agree that the homogenization and obesification of American culture are not at all confined to the South. Indeed, there are only a few urban bubbles where you can escape it. I'm just happy to live in one, is all.

grist.org

by David Roberts at 10:53 AM on 11 Jul 2007

Lotsa stuff

Hey, all:

Ya know practically all of the observations David Roberts has made are universal in the U.S.? Not to diminish his comments, but to point out that to a large extent we are much the same. Do we not know that? Le's see: overweight, unattentive, on the cell phone, ADHD generation children, autistic children, I-Swear-Are-Undiagnosed-Psychopathic children gone wild, children overweight, big box shopping, no Mom and Pop stores, few real local veggies/produce/eggs/anything without conducting a major search, middle class, strip malls, (strip joints), new highways to nowhere, new highways right through developed areas, potholes in both places, uniformly different, differently uniform, millions of new stick-built, alien-corporate-monster-crapping-across-the-landscape-new-housing, ever-widening gap between the haves and have-nots, mirror image Wal-Marts and Targets and McDumb FatAss.... Hmmmm? did I miss anything? I am SURE I did....

AND... under the surface: diabetes, heart disease, heart attacks, strokes, near bankruptcy, past bankruptcy, poverty, credit cards maxed out, one paycheck from disaster, broken/decaying/neglected infrastructure, living on borrowed time, family violence, alcoholism, drug abuse, overprescribed medicine, insurance companies cleaning and moving on, declining education achievement, declining economic potential, families dissolving, ever-widening gap between the haves and have-nots.... Hmmmm? did I miss anything? I am SURE I did....

When my daughter was very young I could be a mean MOFO protecting her, so I can really understand scolding other children when needed. I fully embrace the "it takes a village..." rule.
I even embrace the same rule on a broader scale when dealing with parents who haven't got a stinking clue how to. I called 911 in a grocery store several years ago and had a woman goddam arrested after she shook the Hell out of her child in front of several people. To those who think this is bad, grow a spine for Gawd's sake, and for those who have done things like this yourselves, fight the fight.

Atlanta is a huge metro area, with tendrils spreading everywhere (which I maintain are cancerous but that is another story). It also occurs to me that metro areas are a microcosm (macrocosm?) of problems everywhere.

Vacations have great educational value, if we pay attention.

David
Sustainability For Life

Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!

by SustainableGreen at 11:04 AM on 11 Jul 2007

how about some good news from the SE, then

The SE has lots of good going, too. Take Greensboro, NC: a case study in "unsprawl" in the new issue of Terrain.org:

http://terrain.org/unsprawl/

Spartanburg, SC also has lots on the ball in terms of creating a livable community, one with green spaces, a vibrant arts and alternative music scene, local ag...

Erik

The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,200+ grassroots groups working for conservation & more

by Erik Hoffner at 11:48 AM on 11 Jul 2007

Maybe a healthy lifestyle

Lots of veggies and fruits, lots of exercise and an oblivious attitude?

I feel your pain though, and I will come visit you.

by Baby Boomer at 11:58 AM on 11 Jul 2007
[ Parent ]

Southern vacation misspent

Wow. David, your generalizations have blown me away to quit lurking and finally post a comment.

I grew up in the northeast, but for 15 years have lived in a largish Southern college town with several local farmers markets, two organic groceries (one of which is a coop that sells abundant local produce), bike lanes, an attractive and vibrant downtown, and outdoorsy activities galore. You need to get out of suburban Atlanta, man.

I have elementary school-aged children, and my observation is that they and their friends have FAR better manners than the kids I see when I visit relatives up north. Even with the large percentage of newcomers to the South here, the local zeitgeist is still nicer and more laid-back than the northeastern suburbs where I grew up.

I've been to Seattle and it's very nice, but I wouldn't trade my home here for anything. Come sit on my screened porch for a while, and you'll see why. Don't worry, the town is overwhelmingly liberal.

by GreenMom at 12:20 PM on 11 Jul 2007

that "oomph" that's not on the Prius...

...is why cars haven't gotten better mileage for the last 20 years, and why they probably won't until gas just gets too expensive, because people want the "oomph" and the "oomph" takes a lot of energy.

by Jon Rynn at 12:28 PM on 11 Jul 2007

oomph + efficiency

Equals my VW diesel. I was noting just this morning, as I was pulling up to the petro dispensary with 600+ miles on the trip odometer, that my speedometer goes up to 160 mph. And I ascend the big hill on my daily commute (about 2000 ft in 2-3 miles) with cruise control fully engaged and nary a sign of hesitation. I pass touristas in their RV behemoths on the 2-lane highway with great confidence. It's not a race car, but it has performance equal to or better than most comparably priced and sized passenger cars in the U.S. And I get 48+ mpg.

Not that I advocate aggressive driving, not at all, at all. Just wanted to make the point that there is a "peppy" and efficient alternative. And until I can power up my auto with raw electrons, I'll stick wit mein diesel, danka.

by gmunger at 1:35 PM on 11 Jul 2007
[ Parent ]

"Radiant City"

Has anyone else seen "Radiant City"? Interesting (but overly clever) Canadian film about suburbs and their poor design. They interview JHK in it and there are lots of interesting stats; among which, suburban residents are, in fact, heavier than urban residents:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/08/29/hea ...

by mihan at 6:11 AM on 13 Jul 2007

ADVERTISING POLICY

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