Biodiesel positive feedback loop

Biodiesel rage

Posted by biodiversivist (Guest Contributor) at 9:38 AM on 08 May 2007

Read more about: Seattle | energy | biofuels | cars | green living

More than 1,300 people -- some shouting "revolution" -- took over Fisher Pavilion at the Seattle Center on Sunday. Look what's happening out in the streets, they said: Biodiesel is coming of age. It's all the rage.

Part trade show, part strategy session, part cheerleading camp, the fifth annual NW Biodiesel Forum brought together biodiesel enthusiasts to learn about peak oil, alternative fuels, mass transit and, in a wrap-up discussion, "Biodiesel in the Northwest -- The Revolution Has Begun!"

Many of these enthusiasts are people who have purchased diesel vehicles so they can burn biodiesel in them and every last one of them has at least one bumper sticker to let you know it:

Participants learned how to make biodiesel, where to buy it, its environmental pluses and more at upward of 50 exhibits.

And that is the rub of the problem: they learn about the pluses but nothing about the negatives (nuclear looks like manna from heaven if you ignore the negatives). Virtually none of them are aware of the numerous downsides of their choice of fuel. You can both see and smell the exhaust from many of these cars, especially from the older model Volvos. A modern gasoline car with all of its attendant pollution controls emits far less pollution. The owners don't seem to realize that soot from combusted vegetable oil is very much like soot from a wood stove. They either don't know or don't care that they are stuffing food crops into their cars at the rate of 15 acres or 10 football fields of soy annually (or 5 acres of canola).

Here's an interesting quote:

If Americans increased average fuel efficiency 5 miles a gallon, there would be no need for Middle East oil -- and no need for an Iraq war ...

... and might I add, no need for environmentally devastating agrofuels.

But, what I really find fascinating about this article is that Imperium Biodiesel is now saying that only 20 percent of its biodiesel will come from palm oil. Their original business plan was to get most of their oil from palm. Thanks to pressure from the blogosphere and elsewhere, the quoted percentage continues to drop, and today they are down to 20 percent.

Imperium is working with a coalition of buyers to ensure that palm oil is produced sustainably.

About 20 percent of the Grays Harbor plant's feedstock is expected to come from palms, with the rest from American and Canadian soy and canola farmers, said Todd Ellis, Imperium's director of business development. At first only 1 percent of the canola will come from the Northwest, he said.

Coincidentally, that 1 percent figure is exactly what I said here. I also have to wonder how this Canadian biodiesel refinery will like having Emperium hog up their canola (thus raising the price). I'm also wondering how importing foreign vegetable oil reduces our dependency on foreign oil.

I quote myself below (since nobody else does) from this post:

I have a new prediction to make. Some biofuel refiners will become increasingly deft at dodging negative images. Here are some examples of how they may do it: They will begin to blend small amounts of waste and locally produced oil into their operations so they can say that they use a mix of waste and locally grown oil. As long as the public is not privy to the actual ratios, then most will have their guilt assuaged. The refiners will also grow increasingly cryptic as to what their feed stock is, where it comes from, and how much of it comes from where.

Well, what can I say that I have not said a dozen times by now. According to Mongabay, the Dutch are working on a plan to restrict biofuels that do more harm than good, but apparently, thanks to WTO regulations, they can only ask for voluntary compliance of sustainability standards.

And finally, see if you can spot any contradictions in the following quotes:

"As a Republican, I believe that you know best how to spend your money, that you know better than government or private enterprise," she said in a nod to biodiesel consumers attending.
For entrepreneurs, Holmquist said she would promote an industry tax break next year. "We're all talking about incentives and protecting the business climate for biodiesel," she said.
At the federal level, a $1-a-gallon federal tax credit is set to expire at the end of 2008, Malarkey said.

"Make no mistake, we have a biodiesel industry because of that federal tax credit," he said.

Wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean, know what I mean, eh?

For story: Biodiesel positive feedback loop
17 Comments | Post a Comment

Well - the part

Well the part that scares the hell out of me is a Seattle company called Imperium Renewables and their insistance on using Palm Oil from Malaysia.
http://greyfalcon.net/biofuel

Considering theres 3 major biodiesel companies in Seattle, I wonder how much of this is astroturfing.

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 10:00 AM on 08 May 2007

Great post, BioD

And thank you for the link to the Biodiesel Reality Check Site.

Importing foreign vegetable oil does reduce the nation's dependency on foreign petroleum oil -- through diversification of sources -- though that is not enough of a reason to subsidize biodiesel to the tune of $1.00/gallon (actually, $1.10 per gallon, since most plants also qualify for the $0.10/gallon Small Biodiesel Producer Credit as well).

Moreover, as we have both emphasized, there is always the problem of spacial and temporal displacement, even if the oil consumed to make biodiesel is itself produced sustainably.

These are only my personal opinions.

by Ron Steenblik at 10:02 AM on 08 May 2007

Nice link Grey Falcon

Let me put it out in the open.

Good point Ron

However, what if, in the future we are importing all the biofuel South America can grow and become dependent on it as we have with Middle Eastern oil. Then one day, we elect an idiot for a president and he goes to war with their nearest neighbor in an unprecedented, preemptive attack, all based on mistaken information? : )

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 10:19 AM on 08 May 2007

Well

That also raises the question of:
Exactly how much can South America, in particular Brazil, grow?

For instance,
22% effecient Solar yields 100x more usable energy per-unit-area than Sugar Cane.
http://greyfalcon.net/sugarsolar

And if we're considering even the area it would take to plant cellulosic switchgrass.
The chart here is something like 1/6th the US landmass area.
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol3

And even if we did do Cellulosic Ethanol instead of gasoline, it might even be worse on how "Clean" the fuel is if we did E85 ethanol
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol2

Note this is more Ethanol, and less BioDiesel.
Although technically when you make it use a Fischer Trophe process you can spit out whatever you want, so it all kinda works.

Now if Cellulosic Ethanol, once touted for it's 85% reduction in CO2 is pegged down to only a mere 4% reduction.
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol2

What does that mean on how far down BioDiesel will be knocked?

Lastly when it comes to BioDiesel
Algae.
This is perhaps the only way BioDiesel could ever be considered sustainable/green.
However

Growing it in the ocean is not reliable. (And likely ecologically hazardous)
Growing it on land requires massive ammounts of CO2 and massive ammounts of Methanol for transesterification.
The CO2 would primarily come from fossil carbon power plants. (Making it reliant on fossil fuels for it's growth)
The Methanol would primarily come from fossil carbon sources like Natural Gas. (Currently where virtually all methanol comes from)

Now TECHNICALLY, Methanol production could provide both the CO2 needed via fermentation, and the Methanol. But that seems unlikely.

TECHNICALLY again, they could skip the Methanol entirely and just gasify it, and then turn it into a liquid directly.

But when we start playing all these TECHNICALLY games, the raw answer comes down to.

Even if we were going to use biomass for anything.
THE most effecient way to use it is by turning it into a solid. And then either burning it to make electricity, or burying it as a soil amendment + semi-sequestration.

The second most effecient way to use biomass is to turn it into natural gas, and then burning it to make electricity.

Lastly, it can be turned into a liquid. And then burned in an engine.
But perhaps the most effecient way to use this fuel EVEN when in a liquid form, is in a Diesel Generator, and not a Diesel Engine.

We're throwing away about 3/4ths the original biomass energy just to turn it into a liquid.
62% loss turning it into biodiesel
10% loss in transportation

And then we're throwing away more than 1/2 diesel energy by burning it in a diesel engine, instead of an diesel generator.
57% loss comparing diesel engine, versus diesel generator

So even if we are going to go diesel, why in our right minds would we waste it a diesel engine?

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 11:18 AM on 08 May 2007
[ Parent ]

Who would be dependent on whom?

BioD, in answer to your question:

[W]hat if, in the future we are importing all the biofuel South America can grow and become dependent on it as we have with Middle Eastern oil?

First of all, it ain't going to happen. Pressure on supplies have already driven prices for vegetable oils upwards (in dollar terms: soybean oil by 1/3 over the last year, palm oil by almost 50% since 2005), which makes the manufacturing of biodiesel from virgin oils less profitable. It is never going to make a big dent in U.S. transport fuel supplies. The EU, which uses much more diesel than the USA for transport, will have to struggle to meet its own biodiesel targets.

In any case, vegetable oils, while they differ in the properties they contribute to biodiesel, are fungible. If you were to express your worries about being too dependent on Latin American plant oils to a development economist from that continent they would burst out in a guffaw. The United States has long been highly dependent on coffee imported from Latin America (and imagine the consequences of a disruption in THAT supply). The price consumers pay is certainly affected by the vagaries of the weather and of crop yields, but when was the last time you recall a producer boycott of sales of coffee to the USA?

Production of crops involves many more people than production of petroleum. For that reason alone, exporters of agricultural commodities are not likely to withhold supplies from the market for long.

These are only my personal opinions.

by Ron Steenblik at 12:41 PM on 08 May 2007
[ Parent ]

biodiesel from South America or elsewhere

When U.S. economists look at South America, Southeast Asia, or Africa as a potential source of biodiesel -- or other biofuel -- and calculate whether there is enough to ensure the U.S. economy continues growing, do they subtract the fuel those nations will be consuming to run their own economies?

It seems to me that once petroleum is depeleted to an essentially useless level, every nation will be working very hard just to meet its own needs... no surplus for export. And if you can't grow your own biofuel or burn coal you are screwed.

by wiscidea at 2:28 PM on 08 May 2007

Audubon hearts biodiesel

The current issue of Audubon magazine advocated that that folks should buy diesel cars for biodiesel consumption instead of hybrid cars. It didn't get into detail on how they arrived at that conclusion, but I found that endorsement interesting. No conversation on the source of the fuel, for one, but also that they found the end result to be more benign.

The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more

by Erik Hoffner at 7:03 AM on 09 May 2007

Got a link, Erik?

I did a quick google search and found this, here:

If I have no other choice but to replace my aging and ailing car, which is the most environmental choice: hybrid or biodiesel?
Suzanne Wolfe, Atlanta, GA?
As they say in real estate, it's all about location, location, location. If you take short trips around town and are lucky enough to have access to a local supplier of biodiesel--fuel for diesel engines that is made from either waste vegetable oil (think French fry vats) or processed from renewable crops like soybeans--this is the choice. It will produce the lowest carbon dioxide emissions and help improve air quality the most. Most biodiesel stations are in the Midwest and New England, but new pumps are being added at a rate of one a day. (Find out if you have a local supplier at biodiesel.org.) If you're handy and happen to have a few spare 50-gallon drums lying around, it's not all that difficult to make your own biodiesel (look online for how-to books, blogs, and regional co-ops). Critics of biodiesel charge that harmful pesticides and fertilizers are used to grow soybeans, which currently account for 90 percent of the fuel's fodder, and that because soybeans use so much land and water, this is an inefficient way to solve our energy woes. Researchers are looking into more efficient biodiesel fuels, like switchgrass, palms, and even algae.
If you don't live near a biodiesel pumping station and are unwilling to try a home science experiment, a hybrid vehicle--with an engine that runs on a combination of gasoline and a self-recharging electric battery--is a very good way to reduce emissions, save on fuel costs, and cut down on air pollution. Carpooling, public transportation, walking, and biking are also good for the air, your wallet, and your health.

Most envrionmental groups remain split on the issue of agrofuels. I suspect that had they been called agrofuels from the start instead of biofuels this wouldn't be the case. Some people can't get past the allure of the label.

Ron,

I agree, trade interdependency does help to keep groups of people from going to war against each other. Although, this doesn't always work. Even though Iraq had plenty of oil to trade, they still got invaded. Suggesting that you need a combination of democracy and trade, although in this case it was the democracy that did the invading. There are no guarantees.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

by biodiversivist at 9:03 AM on 09 May 2007

Serial plugin hybrid

That will shift this whole debate. Paralell hybrids like the toyota and honda models do not save signifigantly greater amounts of fuel or gHGs compared to very efficient diesel vehicles.

The Audobon society missed this nuance as do most organizations and individuals.

Plugin hybrids like the gM volt will run on a small fraction of the fuel and produce a small fraction of the gHGs of either biodiesel or regular hybrids.

The best approach now is to do all we can to lobby the pols to back GMs play with government vehicle fleet orders. Put that pie-in-the-sky 2050 goal-playing into reality.

Order up some gM Volts for government use and boost uS jobs along with it. That's vote getting policy.

As for fuel farming biodiesel? Is everyone backing biodiesel insane? Have they never heard of rainforests slashed and burned to produce biodiesel? Evidently not.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 9:23 AM on 09 May 2007

RE: link

BioD: nope, but that one will do.

Amazing Doc: not all biodiesel is evil: small scale grassroots projects that make fuel from waste veggie oil exist and are a good thing to promote. Every city and town can make fuel this way.

The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more

by Erik Hoffner at 12:24 PM on 09 May 2007

re: Erik Hoffner

not all biodiesel is evil: small scale grassroots projects that make fuel from waste veggie oil exist and are a good thing to promote. Every city and town can make fuel this way.

Yeah, but that ammount is so tiny that it doesn't make much sense to even consider it.
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/06/worse-than-fos ...

And even those small grassroots places tend to get their methanol from natural gas (As does pretty much everyone)
http://www.cecarf.org/Programs/Fuels/Fuelfacts/Alternativ ...

And even if you were going to use it, it would make far more sense to burn it as straight vegetable oil in a high temperature turbine.
http://www.insidegreentech.com/node/376

And even if were going to turn it into a diesel fuel. We'd still be far better off burning it in a generator rather than an engine.
http://www.greyfalcon.net/diesel.png

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 12:43 PM on 09 May 2007
[ Parent ]

And oh yeah

Incase you didn't know,
Methanol and KOH Salt is required to process biodiesel.
http://www.biodiesel.com/Transesterification.htm

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 12:50 PM on 09 May 2007
[ Parent ]

thanks

Yes, I'm aware of these facts. However, there is and will be a market for biodiesel made this way for vehicles. Not everyone will convert their diesel cars to run on veggie oil. a/the expense b/the perceived hassle of straight oil vehicles.

None of this would be an issue if hybrid cars weren't so expensive. Honestly, it's insane. Even a used 5 year old Prius goes for the price of a new Corolla in western Mass. That's not in my budget, but if it were, I'd possibly go that route instead of driving a used Jetta.

As for the statement that there is not enough oil to even bother, well, it all depends on your sense of scale. And your sense of what a bother is.

And lots of biodiesel is being used in home heating oil blends already, and will be. It ain't just cars.

The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, & more

by Erik Hoffner at 1:12 PM on 09 May 2007

Well yeah

But if cost is really such a big concern for ya you could just as easily buy a smaller/lightweight car which is inherently effecient.

Ford Focus or Scion xA/xB for instance.

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 2:05 PM on 09 May 2007
[ Parent ]

Well

Well, here's a comparison of a Diesel Jetta versus a Prius in CO2 emissions.
http://www.greyfalcon.net/electriccars2.png

In general a turbo diesel is about equivalent to a Prius over long range
And a Prius is better short range (due to the regenerative braking)

Overall, both about 45 mpg in realworld mileage.

Catch is the NEXT Prius makes you wonder why you would even considering going diesel. (94 mpg)
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/next_generation.p ...

And a plugin hybrid Prius is just dramatic. (150mpg -> 500mpg)
http://www.greyfalcon.net/plugins

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 4:01 PM on 09 May 2007

Agreed Eric

I want to power the backup generator for my future plugin serial hybrid with biodiesel from cooking grease. There is plenty of it around here.

I would also like to make it from a solar collector algae system. And eventually switch from diesel/biogas backup generator to solid oxide fuel cell/microturbine backup generator.

They run on biodiesel, biogas, gasoline, or diesel. At three times the ICE generator efficiency.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

by amazingdrx at 4:55 PM on 09 May 2007

Obama at it again

Heh, another bill which tries to solve things using the magic of biofuels.....
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48 ...

A 5% reduction in carbon from fuels....

Yeah, why even bother if it's gonna be that wimpy?

-David Ahlport

by GreyFlcn at 4:58 PM on 09 May 2007

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