It's All in the List

Posted by Grist at 1:03 PM on 20 Apr 2006

The First Ever List of Grist Superlatives is now live. Who's the hottest eco-model? The mustachiest geo-green? What's the kinkiest eco-innovation? The most self-defeating anti-Kyoto argument? Check out our picks, then tell us what we botched, missed, or totally nailed.

For story: It's All in the List
30 Comments | Post a Comment

Best eco-themed folk music album: ...

It's not completely eco-themed, but I nominate Hot Buttered Rum String Band's new album "Well-Oiled Machine" with the title track being about their veggie-oil-fueled tour bus.

Oh yeah, and Summer Rayne Oakes is totally hot.

Trolls, phishers, spammers, etc. you all suck! That's why I ignore you. Hahahahaha!

by nattydad at 4:27 PM on 20 Apr 2006

migrants; California

Most heroic migrant, facing terrific challenges along the way and especially on arrival, going north to south: Ruby-throated hummingbird, Archilochus colubris.

Most heroic migrant, facing terrific challenges along the way and especially on arrival, going south to north:
the undocumented Mexican farmworker, hoping to feed his family.

On California seceding: that would be a great sorrow (no loss, though, that hunky but contemptuous surfer). California leads the nation in all sorts of important things. I refuse to allow California secede, unless it allows New York City to secede along with it, retaining sovereignty however as an autonomous city-state.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 10:43 PM on 20 Apr 2006

re: best eco-themed folk music album

Ooohh, good call on "Well Oiled Machine"! Fantastic band, great album!

by nbabs at 11:24 PM on 20 Apr 2006
[ Parent ]

Yes!

"Worst way to deal with climate change: nuclear energy"

I like that one the best!

You ought to interview Ed Begley.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 4:45 AM on 21 Apr 2006

Second

Most popular environmental oxymoron: "clean coal"

That ought to be "clean" coal though. NRDC should get a mention for endorsing clean coal.

Add this one:

Worst environmental traitor: RFK jr.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 4:51 AM on 21 Apr 2006

OK, only eco-model

I admit that I am not as well known, but I am happy to say that I see myself as an eco-model. Modeling and environmentalism have both been close to my heart for many years.

Summer is a wonderful, successful person & she is the greatest example of progressive thinking on the East Coast. I'm hoping to be make the same impact here in San Francisco.

Victoria E Model, Writer, Environmentalist http://victoria-e.com/

by VictoriaE at 9:03 AM on 21 Apr 2006

let' em go

Let California and NYC go, then see how they like the export tariffs ;)

by atreyger at 9:44 AM on 21 Apr 2006

Least Thought Out Alternative to Petrol

Adding to petrol a biofuel made from Tallow (Animal Fat) - hello... anyone out there?
Farming of animals is already causing huge problems through wasting large areas of land which could be more productive with non animal food production, creates methane via cow farts, pollutes the land and rivers through farm run off, encourages forest clearing for grazing land, wastes water via irrigation in order to create dairy farms in draught stricken areas, and leads to obesity through overconsumption of animal flesh and dairy in western countries - not to mention the cruelty and death of millions of innocent lives.
Now we are going to see countries rasing cattle to make biofuel in order to add it to petrol to make the petrol go further. Because its called 'biofuel' people will be sucked into thinking its an environmentally friendly fuel alternative - NOT!

by NZVegan at 1:50 PM on 21 Apr 2006

Most Depressing Acquisition of 2006

Isn't necessarily Tom's of Maine -- how about the acquisition of The Body Shop by L'Oréal, which happens to be 26% owned by Nestlé -- recently voted the world's least responsible company?

A Virginian with Ohio roots

by chdulmage at 2:28 PM on 25 Apr 2006

wheres the angry letters to the editors by vegans?

im a vegan and true some things here arent vegan, but theres a lot of places like that. is there somewhere that i can read the letters? cuz i want to see! and is it about the contributing to global warming because you eat meat thing?

mmmm... chestnuts.

by chinkinthelink at 8:19 PM on 25 Apr 2006

vegans and anger

Now now little Vegan. Please write to us much more. I love your style.

There is no reason to be angry. We are all friends. And we all want to hear what you have to say.

I would have thought being vegan should make you less angry and more peace-loving. But sorry, God forbid I should stereotype.

I am a dairy/egg/fish-consuming vegetarian, in fact, and would make an effort to be vegan, if I were not married to a carnivore. So we compromise, after a fashion. E.g., we eye each other suspiciously over the antepasto, gripping our sharp utensils.

I have no idea what the effect of meat-eating is on global warming. But there are some very learned folks who tune in to Grist regularly, who are quite clever with numbers and chemistry and all that stuff, who will be able to tell us clearly how, say, cattle farts contribute to the total green-house gas emissions. And that is just one detail, isn't it.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 10:33 PM on 25 Apr 2006

meat-eaters

I don't think that cattle farts are the most immediate of problems for global warming, since the biomass from cattle has replaced a similar amount of biomass from other farting animals (bison, etc.). Meat-eating may contribute to global warming through land-use conversion with lower albedo and higher decomposition, but that's only due to industrial scale of ag.

Meat-eating by itself has not contributed to global warming, except for the fact that it allowed humans to have a larger brain and allowed us to progress our technology to a whole new level. There's nothing wrong with eating meat though, it's perfectly natural. Except we should all know though where it exactly comes from, who killed it and preferably have it be yourself, family member or friend, since that would allow for the closest relationship to it.

by atreyger at 9:10 AM on 26 Apr 2006

hm...

Except we should all know though where it exactly comes from, who killed it and preferably have it be yourself, family member or friend, since that would allow for the closest relationship to it.

That's a pretty casual way to rule out 99% of the meat Americans actually eat!

grist.org

by David Roberts at 9:55 AM on 26 Apr 2006

YEA!!!

That's the point!!!

by atreyger at 10:46 AM on 26 Apr 2006

Meat Eating and Global Warming

Actually meat eating contributes quite a bit to global warming. First of all, it takes more land to raise meat than to raise the equivalent amount of vegetables (amount needed to supply the same food values). The last numbers I saw quoted were at least ten times as much. So, we could feed ten vegetarians using the amount of land it takes to feed one meat eater (I am using the 10X figure here, it is the lowest I have seen). More land clear cut to raise beef, less forest, more global warming.

Then there is the additional damage caused by the energy required to process meat (it takes more energy to kill, cut up, etc. a cow than to pick an ear of corn). More energy equals more global warming.

Consider that chinkinthelink may not be a native English speaker, but is trying to communicate. I didn't see anger in the message, more like sorrow. Mmmmm, Chestnuts!!

A while back (more than 10 years), the Union of Concerned Scientists said the two things worst for the environment were cars and meat eating.

Certainly people who won't give up their cars aren't going to give up their big macs.....

FWIW, at dinner last night, I was told that more and more Chinese Universities are adding vegetarian options to their dining halls (two of my former students got one going on my old campus).

BTW, I always tell people I am an environmental vegetarian....

patrick

by bookerly at 3:08 PM on 26 Apr 2006

Re: Meat-eating

I agree that our current scale of meat-eating is a HUGE problem, but I was speaking more hypothetically as to the effects of eating meat in a sustainable manner. The 10x figure is about right, but it's really addressing the trophic structure of herbivores v. carnivores. It's lower for humans (at least the ones who do not overdo it), since we are omnivores, and I would say that it is about half or 5x per human who gets half of his/her calories from meat.

Another problem with those figures is that herbivores do not convert tomatoes and beans into meat, but rather grasses and other high cellulose foods. The point of my post was that if all of us knew exactly where our meat came from and if we ourselves killed it or knew who did it, then that is about as good of a scenario as anyone can find.

For example, organic veggies from Cali eaten in New York are pretty much the same as non-organic foods (except for possible health benefits), since they are transferred using... Tum tum tuum... fossil fuels. It's much more sustainable to eat beef grown on grass on a farm 15 miles from where you live or eating venison from a deer that you or your friend killed then those Cali veggies.

"Then there is the additional damage caused by the energy required to process meat (it takes more energy to kill, cut up, etc. a cow than to pick an ear of corn). More energy equals more global warming."

That's also too broad of a statement. Yes, it costs more energetically to kill a cow and process the meat then to pick an ear of corn. But that's like saying: it costs more energetically to make a meal than to eat an apple, so we should not eat meals.

In reality, how many ears of corn would we have to eat to equal the same amount of calories as in a steak?

3oz filet mignon: 185 cal, 4.4oz corn: 118 cal or 63%. How many ears of corn to pick v. killing a cow? 1000 lbs in a cow (small Angus), probably 1/2 is usable, or 500 lbs. Suppose that all parts of the cow that are usable are the same nutritionally (clearly not true, but might average out to be close). 500 lbs * 16 oz/lb * 185 cal/ 3 oz =493,000 cal per cow (I believe a conservative estimate). 493000 cal/118 cal/ear of corn = 4180 ears of corn! Which one do you think is more energetically efficient to process? Hard to say, but it cannot be that drastic of a difference.

by atreyger at 9:35 AM on 27 Apr 2006

correction

In reality, how many ears of corn would we have to eat to equal the same amount of calories as in a steak?

cow not steak

by atreyger at 9:37 AM on 27 Apr 2006

Eat the cow, eat the corn

When you eat a cow, you are also eating all the ears of corn that cow has eaten (smile). When I worked on a farm, cows ate not only grass, but corn, wheat and other things. They also got shots and other medical treatment that corn does not get (ask me the difference between a bull and a steer).

People who are committed to eating meat are committed to eating meat. But it is not good for the environment, and certainly worse than veggies.

As to the 15 mile cow vs. the 3,000 mile corn, why not compare a 15 mile cow to a 15 mile ear of corn?

Everyone will never be vegetarians, but it would be nice for the earth if more of us were. There are another 3 billion or so folks coming to dinner....

patrick

by bookerly at 3:17 PM on 27 Apr 2006

Seasonality

Hey, I'm not a lobbyist for either the corn or cattle industry. I do think that if you could eat corn all the time, that's fine. I was vegetarian for 3 or 4 years, and the reason that I stopped was that a) I was trying to live as local as possible, and b) having a hard time during the winter. Guess what? The veggies don't grow during the winter! And that's when I am the hungriest.

Furthermore, I am far from advocating corn-fed beef. I was talking specifically about grass-fed, plus hunting. You can't eat corn, plus corn sucks, there you go I said, corn sucks. The US is entirely far too overplanted with corn, and the majority of it for cattle. I do like a good ear of corn though, I am not against it during the summer, but how about the winter?

by atreyger at 3:36 PM on 27 Apr 2006

one more thing

You can't insinuate: "People who are committed to eating meat are committed to eating meat. But it is not good for the environment, and certainly worse than veggies."

How 'bout them predators? How can you convince a wolf, dog, puma, whatever, that what they are doing is bad for the environment. 'Cus it ain't bad.

Also, we need animal protein. I think it's better to eat that then rely on an industry of vitamins and supplements, and trying to balance out the right intake. Plus the entire worse than veggies thing, I already covered that with 3000 mile trip from Cali. Face it, most people that are vegetarian (non-environmental) would still buy the food from there despite the locally grown possibilities.

by atreyger at 3:41 PM on 27 Apr 2006

One more ear (of corn)

We do get a lot of produce from far away, but much of what we eat is fairly local (especially if you eat at the low end of the budget scale (smile)).

In the winter, I eat a lot of root vegetables (they have been stored) and processed foods (tofu).

I want to apologize, I didn't mean to insinuate that non-vegetarians don't care about the environment. Food is a very personal thing for most people, for a lot of reasons. And different people have different needs. So, eat meat if you wish. I will not.

Let me do clear up a couple of myths. First of all, you do not HAVE to have animal protein. This is not true. There are many people who are very healthy, even among the strictest vegans.

I rarely take vitamins or supplements, nor do most of the vegetarians I know. I eat as I please, and have good health. People who have problems being vegetarians are obviously going about it the wrong way! You don't need to obsess about your daily intake.

You meat eaters should eat balanced diets too!! (smile).

As for predators? They should eat what is natural for them to eat. And I personally don't think that everyone should become vegetarian. There are poor people in communities where they don't have access to other forms of nutrition, they should eat as they need.

patrick

by bookerly at 7:03 PM on 27 Apr 2006

which is worse, meat or California?

Yes, Atreyger, we are omnivores, so it seems unreasonable to vilify those among us who like to feed upon their hoofed or winged or finned or flippered or shelly or scaly cousins. (Sorry if I am leaving somebody out. Oh right, the squid and octopus: our tentacled cousins.)

And if our ancestors were not pretty regular meat-eaters, we would not likely have become pals with dogs and cats, which would have been a very great loss indeed.

On the other hand, is it not a myth that we actually "need animal protein"? Does not Frances Moore Lappe teach us, in "Diet for a Small Planet," about how our protein needs are satisfied by a diet including whole grains and legumes?

On eating food that comes to us from afar, e.g. California in my case, I think we should indeed try to do what we can to eat locally, but I doubt it will ever be 100% possible. And personal preferences of an ethical sort are not to be treated lightly. A vegetarian or vegan in NYC is not going to be persuaded to eat beefsteak from New Jersey (?; we associate many interesting cultural phenomena with the Garden State, but not cattle drives) rather than broccoli from California.

That said, I hear you about corn (which I never liked much either, though I like cornmeal things): we should cultivate a love of seasonality. We do not need to have our favorite fruits and vegetables all year long.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 7:08 PM on 27 Apr 2006

storing vegetables

Wow, Patrick, are we on the same page or what! And that too, though we stand in nearly antipodal opposition.

I wish we in the West had better traditions about storing summer vegetables to hold us through the winter. Of course there is a certain amount of drying, pickling, preserving; but probably nothing as rich as what you have in China. Chinese cuisine is one of the chief glories of humanity.

Does canning count?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

by caniscandida at 7:31 PM on 27 Apr 2006

Western Traditions

Hello Caniscandida,

When I was a boy in America (about 40 years or more ago), we canned every winter. We went to the farm and picked a lot of vegetables, then cooked them and canned them for a couple of days. I remember getting tired of canned tomatoes towards the end of the winter.

In modern China, winter vegetables come from the South and from other countries. But in smaller restaurents, they will change the menu to reflect what is available (and affordable). Tomatoes and spinach are available year round, though towards the end of the winter, they aren't as nice.

On the street, we can chart the changing seasons as street vendors show up with different products. Winter brings chesnuts and yams (roasted on the spot) as well as popcorn (made fresh while you watch). As new fruits become cheap, the vendors change, from tomatoes to oranges to lychee to cherries to watermelon and so on (not in that order, but you get the idea).

Chinese folks like things fresh, so there is less emphasis on pre-prepared foods (those terrible dried noodles being an exception, the students gobble them up!). Even simple dishes are made from scratch usually, which adds to their appeal.

Canned foods don't seem so widely available, nor popular. This also applies to frozen foods. They all exist, but in smaller quantities. The dairy industry, though, is growing rapidly here.

patrick

by bookerly at 8:34 PM on 27 Apr 2006

Storing

I agree about storing, it's a bit of a flaw in my argument. The way that I view it, you still need to supplement. I personally only store potatoes, beets and carrots, but I remember the ton of stuff that my grandparents stored, including preserves, delicious Russian compot (kind of a non-alcoholic sangria type thing) and other things. But I believe strongly in grandparent wisdom, more now than ever, and we had some meat most days. They were super healthy people and are still alive now (both near 90), so they must have been doing something right!

by atreyger at 7:34 AM on 28 Apr 2006

Veggies And Global Warming

Not sure where else to put this, so I'll try here.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060424/veggies_pla.html

For an article about the connection between what we eat and global warming...

patrick

by bookerly at 8:31 PM on 29 Apr 2006

Great article patrick

Where to find an article on how conversion to organic agriculture would restore depleted soil to act as a carbon sink. As it did before being converted to chemical agriculture.

The key question? How much carbon is stored in healthy organic soil? Chemical ag destroyed soil must be near zero.

With the huge land area devoted to agriculture could this reverse global climate disaster all on its own?

If one thinks of photosynthesis as nature's main mechanism to restore the greenhouse gas atmospheric balance to pre-human created combustion related catastrophic change, then that huge land area as a carbon sink might just be the difference that saves us, along with renewable energy replacing fossil, chemical fuel farming, and nuclear.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

by amazingdrx at 6:39 AM on 30 Apr 2006
[ Parent ]

Probably will be backstabbed

Yep there are some interesting ties between Hawaii and Alaska senators (good 'ol boy network) that causes them to vote certain ways. I know our Hawaii senators vote for drilling in ANWR, they say it is because they support native rights to their land, but it is one of those I'll vote for your bill if you vote for mine deals.

I would say that if Ed Case becomes senator he would be most likely to stab anti-war enviros in the back. This guy votes like a republican even though he calls himself a democrat.

Hawaii is in a place where after being democratic for such a long time it has become complacent and is being taken over by conservative big biz anti-environment republicans. It is a shame.

by Mauichris at 3:59 PM on 01 May 2006

Least used Tool

Well we can unwrap "Hope" and put it to use, I came across this website which has great ideas to get involved and turn horror into hope.

Web of Hope
and
Project Flamingo

by Mauichris at 12:08 AM on 03 May 2006

Typo

The link is actually supposed to be www.thewebofhope.org

Sorry...

by Mauichris at 12:10 AM on 03 May 2006
[ Parent ]

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